Paint Question

[jcma81]

Does anyone have experience with detailing BMWs. I recently got a BMW 530i. I was wondering if it would have hard or soft paint. I 'm wanting to use my PC on it but with all the talk about soft paint and using less aggressive compounds I was unsure about using the PC. Any help would be appreciated.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Paint Question

Originally posted by jcma81
Does anyone have experience with detailing BMWs. I recently got a BMW 530i. I was wondering if it would have hard or soft paint. I 'm wanting to use my PC on it but with all the talk about soft paint and using less aggressive compounds I was unsure about using the PC. Any help would be appreciated.

Meguiar's always teach the philosophy of,

"Use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

This applies to all surfaces and surface coatings, no matter their hardness. The idea being to only remove enough material to remove the defect thus leaving the most material behind for the optimum service life of the finish.

I've been polishing paint since my first paint job in 1978 on the car I drove in high school a 1948 Plymouth Coupe.



I have machine cleaned and polished using the Meguiar's' line of products enough cars to wear the side of my cast aluminum Makita buffer smooth in two places like chrome,



Almost every weekend I have the opportunity to work on a large variety of cars in all kinds of conditions with all types of different paint, some new, some old, some factory, some re-finished at a body shop, to this day, I don't know if the finish on a car is hard or soft until I bring my hand or a machine down onto it and see what I can do.

You just cannot make blanket statements like,

"such and such pant is hard"

It may or may not be true, you won't know until you try to remove a swirl, scratch or etching out of the finish and try to remove a little paint using a paint cleaner. It is at this point, if you have some experience to compare to, that you can say to yourself that,

"This paint is hard" or "This paint is soft"

You just don't know until you try removing a defect, how hard or soft the paint is. A general statement like this is accurate,

"Modern, catalyzed basecoat/clear coat finishes are typically harder than traditional single-stage solvent-evaporation paints"

And while this is generally true, it's not concrete. There have been many times we've worked on a brand new factory clear coat where the paint was soft enough to allow us to easily remove small particles of paint and thus remove the below surface defects. This is of course, the way in which you remove defects, in order to remove a below the surface defects such as swirls, scratches and etchings, you must remove a little paint in order to level or smooth out the finish as the below diagrams indicate.







To be honest, paint hardness is relative and you won't know how hard or soft your car's finish is until you try to remove a defect. If your BMW has swirls in the finish, then below is a a basic guide for removing them.


Here's the basic order of steps to follow,


Washing
Before detailing your car, first do an extremely good job of washing it. Remove all the dirt from all the nooks and crannies. This prevents any small abrasive dirt particle from entering into the machine polishing process and potentially instilling a swirl. Get the Car Sparkling Clean to start with and everything will be downhill after that.

Claying
After that clay the car, at least the horizontal surfaces. Again, do a good job of claying to insure you remove all above surface contaminants. The level of gloss you can achieve from your car's finish is mostly determined by how smooth you can make your paint. Claying will make your car's finish as smooth as glass.

Cleaning
Cleaning is different than washing. Cleaning is removing both above surface defects like oxidation and below surface defects like swirls, scratches, etchings, and dirt that has embedded itself under the surface. Choose the appropriate paint cleaner for the condition of your car's finish and your application process. If you're unsure of which paint cleaner or cleaner/polish is right for your car, describe your car and if possible post a picture and we'll be glad to make some recommendations.


Polishing
Polishing after removing the defects is typically using a pure polish that is non-abrasive to restore brilliant high gloss and deep, dark reflections. This is an optional step and one best used on medium to dark colored car.

Protecting
This is where you apply your choice of wax or paint protectant. Adding a layer or two of wax creates a sacrificial-barrier on your car's paint to protect it and also add shine and gloss. Generally, two thin coats will insure even coverage with a uniform appearance.

Maintaining
Maintaining is the use of products like a quick detailer or a spray wax to maintain that "Just detailed look" in-between regular washings, and the regular application of a normal coat of wax.


Meguiar's always teaches,

"Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

The idea is to see if you can restore an acceptable finish using the least aggressive product. Starting with a mild paint cleaner or cleaner/polish and testing to see what can accomplished with it is the safe way to learn which product you will need to safely remove the defects. If the first products you try don't do the job, you can always substitute a more aggressive product.

The most aggressive you can go with Meguiar's products and a dual action polisher is using our #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish and our W-8006 foam pad on the 5.0 setting. Getting any more aggressive than this can cause hazing of the finish and if the defects are serious enough to require a more aggressive product then you should use a rotary buffer or take it to a professional who is experienced with the rotary buffer.


When it comes to removing swirls and other defects using the dual action polisher, here are two products that work really well,

#80 Speed Glaze
#83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish



In keeping with Meguiar's philosophy of using the least aggressive product to get the job done, if you are unfamiliar with these products and/or your car's paint, then always perform "Test Spot" to a small are first before attempting to do the entire car.

"If you cannot make one small area look good with your prescribed products and process, then you will not be able to make the entire car look good"

Makes sense huh?

To do a test spot, start out with the #80 Speed Glaze with a W-8006 foam polishing pad and buff for 3-4 minutes.


When cleaning paint with the dual action polisher, you want to map out in your minds eye a section or area about 16" square or rectangle, or whatever fit's your car's body panels shape. The idea is you don't want to try to do to much of an area at one time or you will not get good results. The dual action polisher is gentle in it's cleaning and polishing action and for this reason, trying to work on too large an area at one time will not remove enough paint to remove any defects.

Note: To remove a below surface defect, you must remove some paint until the highest points of the surface are level with the lowest depths of the defect you're trying to remove. This means removing paint. This also means how deep of a defect you can remove is determined by how thick you paint is. Often times you can improve a defect, but not completely remove the defect as to do so would remove to much paint and in the case of a clear coat, expose the color coat and in the case of a non-clear coat finish, you will expose the primer under the color coat. How much paint you can remove is hard to know because you can never know exactly how much working film-build you have to work with. Experience in this area helps a lot and sometimes luck is a factor to. Remember this, light swirls are generally pretty safe to remove, but deep scratches like key scratches etc. you will probably be better off merely improving the way they look so they don't stand out like a sore thumb, the to attempt to completely remove them.

When using the dual action polisher to remove defects, map out a section to work in your minds eye. Check the speed setting on the variable speed adjuster. For removing defects you usually need to be around the 4.5 to 5.0 setting. Meguiar's never recommends running the polisher faster than the 5.0 setting as these higher speed settings produce an oscillating action that is too violent in it's speed and motion and this combined with time creates heat and the synergy of all these factors will loosen the Velcro material attached to the foam. Keep your speed settings at 5.0 or below.

After applying some product to your foam pad, (already attached to the polisher), place the face of the foam pad onto the finish and then turn the polisher on. DO NOT turn the polisher on before it has come into contact with the foam pad or your will sling product all over the place and then you'll get to clean the splatter up instead or work on your car's finish. Once you have turned the polisher on, move the polisher around to spread out your product over the area you are going to work. This is important. What you're trying to do here is to spread-out your product so that you have a film of fresh product spread out over the surface you're going to work. THEN begin to work the product against the finish using a slow arm speed, moving the polisher back and forth over the section and overlapping your passes by 50%. You should run the polisher in a couple of different directions, always with overlapping motions, to insure even cleaning over the entire surface.

Note: The reason you want to spread your freshly applied product out over the section you're going to work is because if you turn the polisher on and immediately begin to work in one place, as you're working the product against the finish the diminishing abrasives are breaking down. As you continue to move around the area you're working, by the time you get to the last portion of the area you're working, you will be using a much less aggressive product than when you started out because all the while the diminishing abrasives have been breaking down. If when you first start out you take a few moments to spread the freshly applied product around over the entire section you're going to work, and then go back to your start point, you will have fresh product ready to be worked into the finish as you move from one area to the other.

Does that makes sense?

After you have buffed the area for 3-4 minutes, (how long you buff can be relative to the temperature and humidity in your area, also the type of paint your working on and the amount of product you applied. The important thing is that you buffed long enough to work the product against the finish and have broken the diminishing abrasives down, but you have not buffed to long and buffed to a dry buff. This is something that is hard to explain with a keyboard and a computer monitor and is really something that first-hand experience will teach you), stop buffing, wipe off the residue and inspect the results in two kinds of light, (if possible). If your results look good and are acceptable to you, then repeat this process, (#80 Speed Glaze with the W-8006 foam pad on the 4.5 to 5.0 setting), and after removing all of the residue you can then go on to the waxing step.

If your results don't look good, and this combination of products is not removing as many of the swirls and scratches as you would like, then try repeating the above to the same test section using the #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. Use a new clean W-8006 foam polishing pad for this step, or a W-8006 foam polishing pad that you have previously used with the #83.

Here's a suggestion
Use a permanent marker to mark the back of your buffing pads with the product number you're using with them so you don't mix different products onto different pads.


After buffing the test section on the 5.0 setting remove the excess product and re-polish the same area with the #80 Speed Glaze and the W-8006 pad marked and used with this product. Repeat the same procedure as originally outlined for doing the test spot with the #80 above. After you are finished buffing this area, remove the residue and inspect your results again in two kinds of light if possible.

The goal of coarse is that now your car's finish will look great! and be ready for you choice of wax. If your car's finish does look great and meets your expectations then repeat this 2-step cleaning approach to the entire car. If not then chances are very good to remove the defects and meet you requirements the finish will need to be professionally cleaned and polished using a rotary buffer by an experienced professional.



Hope this helps...

Mike

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

I would not read too much into the discussion of soft paints. Some cars have relatively soft paint while others do not. But the key word is "relative." Some may say a paint is soft but as compared to what? I will use the term to describe a paint that will respond to less aggressive cleaners/compounds compared to other paint.

As for your BMW, what condition is the paint in? If the paint is in good condition with light swirls, then I would use the PC, W-8006 Polishing Pad and #80 Speed Glaze. If this does not remove the swirls, then move on to a more aggressive product like #83 DACP.

How a paint will respond is always measured on that particular paint you are working on. Always use the least aggressive product possible to do the job.

Do you have some pics of your new 530i ??

Tim

[jcma81]

Thanks Mike and Tim You guys are always helpfull. The car is actually new but when I bring it into service the dealer instill swirls, or I mean washes it for me. The swirls aren't bad but I notice them. I currently have #7,#9, and #83. How important would it be to add #80 to my collection? I'm getting ready for an order and am trying to plan out what I need thanks guys.

Here is a picture Tim, its not a great picture though.


P.S. Thanks for taking the time for a great write up Mike

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by jcma81
Thanks Mike and Tim You guys are always helpful. The car is actually new but when I bring it into service the dealer instill swirls, or I mean washes it for me. The swirls aren't bad but I notice them.

Best thing to do if possible is to take ownership of the car washing procedure.

I currently have #7,#9, and #83. How important would it be to add #80 to my collection? I'm getting ready for an order and am trying to plan out what I need thanks guys.

I would definitely recommend it. It's a great tool to have in your toolbox. It's easy to work with and a great first step to use to see what you can do while being the least aggressive. The M07 is a non-abrasive pure polish and M09 is pretty gentle that best results for removing swirls are with a rotary buffer. The M80 will remove swirls better than M09 with a dual action polisher.

P.S. Thanks for taking the time for a great write up Mike

Your welcome

Mike

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,

Nice car!!!

I would strongly suggest that you pick up some #80! It is a fantastic product!

Tim