Using Meguiar's D/A Microfiber Correction System

[wig]

Just used one step with the MF D300 and M205 on a yellow foam pad and finished off with ultimate wax on a brownish finishing pad

Wig

[STRIFE]

wow...bookmarking this....gonna get the MF kit very soon!!

[whitemiata]

Ok, so I'm a total noob. Just some guy with three cars (one needs to get sold) who enjoys washing his car with his little ones and has hand-polished and hand-waxed his cars in the past using Meguiars consumer products.

I need to sell the Miata and decided to make it look as best as it could. It's a 1997 model, black, stored outdoors in South Florida sun for the past 15 years. Given these parameters the car looks astonishingly good. But in absolute terms it looks only maybe a couple of steps better than "like ****". There are scratches, what appears to be acid etching and a few swirl marks. at this point the paint looks pretty darn good from 15 feet and when you walk up to it you do see your reflection in it... but there are all those blemishes that make it look like you need to seek medical attention. LOL.

On the recommendation of "The Internets" I bought a PC bla bla bla XP ... I know there's a 24 in there... it's the one that is often recommended on par with the Meguiars one. I also bought this MF starter kit and tried it on the car already.

So attempt one was a total failure... I just went by the paper instructions that came with the starter kit... don't recall anything about "priming", didn't clean the MF disc between sections... probably overfilled it... and wow... talk about the polar opposite of everything that is said here... I couldn't see a difference and the product was atonishingly difficult to take off... think taking a hard bristle scrub brush and wrapping it in a MF cloth to scrub the dust off the car.

yeah... did I mention I'm a noob? Ha ha ha

So yesterday I called support and spoke with a nice guy who in the most polite way possible basically said "dude you're doing it ALL wrong" and pointed me here (thanks man!). I read through these threads (both of them) and tried again. This time priming, green-pea loading, brushing... you would all have been proud of me. Major improvement in the cleanup department - it was indeed effortless to get the stuff off.

That said... there wasn't much difference in the way the paint looked. Maybe marginally better but yeah marginally. No real blemishes disappeared or showed any noticeable sign of being on the way to disappearing.

I took the "don't be shy about applying pressure" comment to heart... and maybe I'm taking it too far... I presume that if I see smoke coming out of the vents of the PC DA that is not a sign I'm using the tool within operating specs, right? (Using it at setting 5 FWIW) ... so after seeing that and after the front of the tool reaching the surface temperature of Mercury I decided to back off and reinterpret that whole "don't be shy about applying pressure" in more of a "don't feel like you have to actively fight gravity to keep the machine from making full contact with the car" I never actually put enough pressure on the polisher to actually STOP the pad from spinning but I definitely got it to the point where I could actually SEE the MF fibers that were spinning. Is that too slow?

Anyway... I figured I'd give the best picture I can (welll other than a picture I guess... and I'm a photographer... I really should be ashamed of myself LOL) of the condition of the vehicle, and of my (lack of) technique. I guess I have two questions:

1. should I expect to need to spend some inordinate amount of time on each section of the car?

2. should I expect to need to do the car multiple times? Meaning do I plan on spending 15 minutes per 2x2 section... or do I do the entire car and then re-do it two more times?

I appreciate any feedback you may be able to give

[Michael Stoops]

Well kudos to our Customer Care Center guy for helping out and steering you toward MOL for a good learning experience! And major kudos to you for accepting that your technique needed a bit of an adjustment with the DAMF System!

So, a '97 Miata, and judging by your screen name it's white, right? There is a very real possibility that you're working on single stage paint but it could be a bit difficult to determine this as you'd be getting white paint transferring onto your white microfiber pads....... that's as difficult to see as clear coat transfer onto any pad. But here's the real issue - while most people think of single stage paint as being softer than clear coat systems are, when you're dealing with single stage white you're dealing with titanium dioxide as the pigment. And that means you're likely dealing with the hardest paint you'll ever encounter. And that's "hard" with a capital "H". And a capital "A". And "R". And "D". We've worked on neglected single stage white with a rotary buffer, wool pad and M105 spinning at close to 2000 rpm (super aggressive process) and it hardly made a dent in the defects. It increased the gloss, but it left the scratches and other below surface defects in place.

This all means you're going to have a real project ahead of you, which is kind of unfortunate because Miata's are well known for having otherwise very easy paint to work on. I used to have a '99 in Emerald Mica and it was almost crazy soft paint, and super easy to correct (but also super easy to swirl). To answer your two questions, then:

1. Yep.

2. You should work on each section using multiple passes until you've achieve some level of success that approaches your goals. Then move on to the next section, rather than do the whole car and then start all over again. Just stay aware of surface heat, and maybe swap out your pads a couple of times while working on the car to prevent subjecting them to constant high heat. Don't just throw caution to the wind and think that nothing can possibly go wrong - as soon as you lull yourself into a false sense of security something bad will happen. Never stop paying attention to heat both on the paint surface and on the pad where it attaches to the backing plate. That's where the real heat will occur, hence the recommendation to swap pads and let them cool down. You can alternate between two pads, trading back and forth on each panel, just to let one cool down regularly.

[davey g-force]

So, a '97 Miata, and judging by your screen name it's white, right?

Mike, he actually said it's black. Confusing I know...

It's a 1997 model, black,

[Michael Stoops]

Mike, he actually said it's black. Confusing I know...

Oh sure, I read through a beautifully crafted post and miss this one (fairly important) bit! By the way, the OP actually left me a voice mail pointing this out!



OK - black, white, what's the difference? Well, the difference is potentially huge, especially if this is single stage paint. And it still could be single stage even though it's black. This is a '97 model and while we'd expect most cars built in that time frame to be clear coated, it was black, white and red that were usually the last colors to transition to clear coat. But black single stage won't use the same titanium dioxide pigment (or else it would be white) so it shouldn't be anywhere near as hard as SS white. Not even close. In fact, it could be quite delicate - and Miatas are known for having very delicate paint. We had a guy bring a much newer Miata (NC generation) to our garage a couple of years back, also black, and he was really struggling to remove defects and really bring up the gloss level he wanted. He kept getting more and more aggressive with his process and the gloss just wasn't there. He came to our garage wanting to try a foam cutting pad and M105 - a very aggressive combo he did not have at home. We looked at the paint, discussed what had been happening, and suggested he go in the opposite direction and try M205 on a foam finishing pad. He thought we were crazy (hey, at least we didn't miss the fact that his car was black!!) but decided to give it a shot anyway. To his great surprise, the test spot looked fantastic - defect free, deep, rich gloss.

So what happened? The paint was so delicate that his aggressive approach was just creating a whole new set of defects. The paint looked dull and hazy, you could see trails left by the buffer/pad combo, and overall it just wasn't very pretty. We suspect that's what you're seeing here, especially since the DAMF System is extremely aggressive and you're using it in a very aggressive manner. Now, that's all perfectly fine and well, as long as you're not working on really delicate paint. Delicate paints tend to really hate this system, while really hard paints just love it. Delicate paint can pose a real challenge to new users of DA buffers; they expect to see positive results - a visual improvement in the appearance of the paint - and when they don't get that they automatically tend to assume that they just aren't removing the defects and need to work longer, or get more aggressive, or both. But doing so just makes the situation worse. To a new user it's counter intuitive to actually use a less aggressive process to correct the problem when their current, more aggressive process, failed.

Yes, the DAMF System is a fantastic system, but it's not the be-all, end-all detailing system that will work flawlessly on every car. No system, no product, no pad is. So, to whitemiata, we would suggest the following: since it would appear that the only pads and liquids you have for the DA buffer are those from the DAMF System, we'd like you to try a test spot (no more than 2' x 2') using hand application with the products you've always used in the past. Or even try hand applying the D300 Correction Compound by hand, but use a foam wax applicator pad instead of the microfiber cutting disc. If that corrects things and starts to bring up the gloss and clarity you're looking for, then it only serves to confirm all of the above. Of course, if this car has been repainted at some time in the past, all of the above goes out the window and we're back to square one. Some pictures would really help as they would allow us to more accurately diagnose the paint condition.

[Hellspawn]

@MICHAEL STOOPS:

After using the D300/mf cutting pad on a 2012 Infiniti G37 with vibrant red paint, would you recommend M205/white polishing pad before an LSP, or would you use a different pad. I have red LC, gray LC, white LC right now. I'm wondering if should be skipping the D301/mf finishing pad because of any haze left over or will the M205 work better?

[Michael Stoops]

@MICHAEL STOOPS:

After using the D300/mf cutting pad on a 2012 Infiniti G37 with vibrant red paint, would you recommend M205/white polishing pad before an LSP, or would you use a different pad. I have red LC, gray LC, white LC right now. I'm wondering if should be skipping the D301/mf finishing pad because of any haze left over or will the M205 work better?

There are two schools of thought on this and the process that works best in your situation is something only you can determine. Nobody can tell you with complete certainty exactly how any process is going to perform on your specific car - there are just too darn many variables. But we can offer the following:

Step 1: Do your correction with D300/DMC5 and then critically evaluate the finish. On some paint the finish will look LSP ready, on others there will be some degree of haze, from very, very light to maybe even more than you really like. The finish you get after D300/DMC5, along with your ultimate goals, will determine what the next step will be.

Step 2, Option a: Following D300/DMC5 there is zero haze, the paint looks fantastic, and you're happy with the result. You can just go straight to D301/DMF5 and call it done. Your end result will be pretty remarkable for a simple two step process.

Step 2, Option b: Following D300/DMC5 there is zero haze, the paint looks fantastic, but you want to try and push it to the max. Put a foam finishing pad on the DA (we'd lean toward the LC red/crimson finishing pad as opposed to the others you mentioned) and apply some M205 at speed 4 with light to moderate pressure. Don't work it too long, and clean the pad very frequently to maximize the efficiency of the M205. Then apply your favorite LSP when done. Your net result should be truly stunning.

Step 2, Option c: Following D300/DMC5 there is a tiny bit of haze, the paint looks really good, but you have some time constraints. Finish off with D301/DMF5 and call it done. This will clear up light hazing and really make the paint look fantastic.

Step 2, Option d: Following D300/DMC5 there is a fair bit of haze, the paint definitely needs some finish work. Skip the D301/DMF5 and go straight to M205, using that red/crimson finishing pad as described in Step 2, Option b. Your end result should be every bit as nice as what Step 2, Option b gave.

Step 2, Option e: Following D300/DMC5 there is a lot of haze, the paint definitely needs some finish work (and you might almost be freaking out a bit!). Do a quick test spot with the red/crimson finishing pad; if that removes all the haze then proceed as described above. If not, step up to the next most aggressive pad and do another test spot. Proceed as described above.

In our experience with Infiniti paint, except for some very rare situations, we would expect that you would fall into one of the first 3 options; any haze that you might get should be very light indeed, and will clean up with ease. From there it's up to you to formulate a plan of attack that will yield the result you're really looking for.

[Hellspawn]

There are two schools of thought on this and the process that works best in your situation is something only you can determine. Nobody can tell you with complete certainty exactly how any process is going to perform on your specific car - there are just too darn many variables. But we can offer the following:

Step 1: Do your correction with D300/DMC5 and then critically evaluate the finish. On some paint the finish will look LSP ready, on others there will be some degree of haze, from very, very light to maybe even more than you really like. The finish you get after D300/DMC5, along with your ultimate goals, will determine what the next step will be.

Step 2, Option a: Following D300/DMC5 there is zero haze, the paint looks fantastic, and you're happy with the result. You can just go straight to D301/DMF5 and call it done. Your end result will be pretty remarkable for a simple two step process.

Step 2, Option b: Following D300/DMC5 there is zero haze, the paint looks fantastic, but you want to try and push it to the max. Put a foam finishing pad on the DA (we'd lean toward the LC red/crimson finishing pad as opposed to the others you mentioned) and apply some M205 at speed 4 with light to moderate pressure. Don't work it too long, and clean the pad very frequently to maximize the efficiency of the M205. Then apply your favorite LSP when done. Your net result should be truly stunning.

Step 2, Option c: Following D300/DMC5 there is a tiny bit of haze, the paint looks really good, but you have some time constraints. Finish off with D301/DMF5 and call it done. This will clear up light hazing and really make the paint look fantastic.

Step 2, Option d: Following D300/DMC5 there is a fair bit of haze, the paint definitely needs some finish work. Skip the D301/DMF5 and go straight to M205, using that red/crimson finishing pad as described in Step 2, Option b. Your end result should be every bit as nice as what Step 2, Option b gave.

Step 2, Option e: Following D300/DMC5 there is a lot of haze, the paint definitely needs some finish work (and you might almost be freaking out a bit!). Do a quick test spot with the red/crimson finishing pad; if that removes all the haze then proceed as described above. If not, step up to the next most aggressive pad and do another test spot. Proceed as described above.

In our experience with Infiniti paint, except for some very rare situations, we would expect that you would fall into one of the first 3 options; any haze that you might get should be very light indeed, and will clean up with ease. From there it's up to you to formulate a plan of attack that will yield the result you're really looking for.

Well, based on sunlight examination I do see a fair amount of swirls, nothing like there was, but I'm not as much satisfied as I was yesterday. I was talking with someone else who details for a living and was told the 'hard clear' takes heavy pressure with the D300 and I simply used light pressure. I think I messed up there and will need to go back on it.

[Michael Stoops]

Tell you what - let's keep this discussion on your particular G37xS going where it started, over here.