Ultimate Wax

[PursuitSE]

Re: Ultimate Wax

Thankfully I didn't get a new bottle of NXT 2.0 and decided to wait until I make my big spring order from ADS. Then I will certainly get this new Ultimate Wax instead of the NXT. Not that I don't like the NXT, but we always like to try new stuff !

[Blazebro]

Re: Ultimate Wax

Here's a little shot taken at our SEMA booth - it's the foam applicator pad and microfiber towel packaged with Ultimate Wax. Notice anything different about them?

Might be wrong, but apart from the app being black and glittery, the main thing of note is there's no seam aroun the outside edge????

Having used the old yellow sponge apps this also looks a bit more fluffy so I'd also assume it's slightly bigger and softer to bring it in line with a few other apps hitting the market?????

Like the sound of the product, would like to know how it compares to Colli 915, or as a more direct competitor FK1000p, a product I don't really rate tbh.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Ultimate Wax

Might be wrong, but apart from the app being black and glittery, the main thing of note is there's no seam aroun the outside edge????

Having used the old yellow sponge apps this also looks a bit more fluffy so I'd also assume it's slightly bigger and softer to bring it in line with a few other apps hitting the market?????

Like the sound of the product, would like to know how it compares to Colli 915, or as a more direct competitor FK1000p, a product I don't really rate tbh.

Good eye!!

In all honesty that black applicator is probably still a preproduction item but you're at least partly right about it. It's really not "glittery", that's just an effect of the photograph, but the yellow pads exhibit this same sort of appearance. It's also the same size and shape as the yellow pad, but the edge doesn't protrude as much - it's sort of recessed into the edge on the black pad.

[Blazebro]

Re: Ultimate Wax

If there's one thing Megs should follow through on it's the removal of the seem. A little thing, but it inspires a bit more confidence and feels slightly better in hand.

It also looks nicer/cleaner.

What mix and weight is the MF?

[D B K]

Re: Ultimate Wax

How much revenue if we want to send for this product in Turkey Istanbul hello to me? including shipping fee?

[rqk]

Re: Ultimate Wax

Better than NXT 2.0 and will not turn trim black? Wow! I sure wish new products came out in spring. Now I gotta wait all winter

[joaks]

Re: Ultimate Wax

I was wondering if Mr. Stoops could comment on the durability of this product with vs without Ultimate Polish used first.

[Shawn T.]

Re: Ultimate Wax

I would think it wouldn't it effect it too much either way.

[smack]

Re: Ultimate Wax

I was wondering if Mr. Stoops could comment on the durability of this product with vs without Ultimate Polish used first.

I would imagine the durability wouldnt make much of difference with our without UP. What would make a difference is the gloss in the paint with the UP.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Ultimate Wax

Shawn and Mike are correct - using Ultimate Polish prior to Ultimate Wax won't compromise the life span or protection of the wax. Our products are all cross compatible so using them together is never a problem.

[joaks]

Re: Ultimate Wax

Would you be able to explain the chemistry to that? It seems that if you had a layer of oil (polish) and added a layer of sealant or wax that the wax would never be able bind to the paint. I use M07 and have not had a problem, but I would like to know the "how" of this.

[Shawn T.]

Re: Ultimate Wax

Some of the oil from M07 and UP will be absorbed into the paint to a certain extent. The very top layer of paint is porous to a certain degree but clear coats much less than single stage paints. This is why a treatment of M07 will have a more dramatic effect on single stage paints as they absorb more of the oils.

When you go ahead and wipe M07 off, you are only leaving an extremely thin layer of oils that have actually remained on the finish. If you went ahead and wiped the M07 treated area for 20 mins using new towels every few minutes you will find much less product on the surface than if you removed with only a few passes of a microfiber. This is similar to the application of a wax. There was a thread here about the longevity of NXT 2.0. It was stated that the more you wipe the wax, the more wax you remove from the surface. The optimal thing to do is to only wipe once or maybe twice over a given area to remove the residue but leave as much of the sealant behind to bond properly to the finish (12 hour curing time). Since the oils from M07 don't bond like a wax to the surface then they should be very fluid and capable of moving. From my logic then, if you apply a wax (like M26) over a pure paint. I feel like this would create an almost wax-oil mixture allowing the oils to remain and enhance the shine but also allowing the wax to bond to the surface.

I'm not sure if that made any sense or if it has any validity. This is my connection of all the pieces I have learned thrughout this forum but they are probably more complex than what I'm talking about.

Once again, if it makes sense, great and if it's totally wrong, sorry.

Easy answer is don't worry about it.

[Alfisti]

Re: Ultimate Wax

One of Megs chemists explained it once, and, if I remember correctly, basically said that the oils actually *aid* adhesion to the paint. It helps the LSP to spread, at the molecular level, to every nook and cranny and bond to the paint. Otherwise, it would sit on top of the paint and lose durability.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Ultimate Wax

Would you be able to explain the chemistry to that? It seems that if you had a layer of oil (polish) and added a layer of sealant or wax that the wax would never be able bind to the paint. I use M07 and have not had a problem, but I would like to know the "how" of this.

I just stepped out of our head chemist's office (VP of R&D) where we were discussing this very topic - I wanted to make sure I conveyed this information as accurately as possible since we know it's a subject of much debate in detailing forums.

You are correct in assuming that if you had a layer of oil on top of the paint that the wax/sealant would not adhere to it. But in order for that to happen you would need a perfectly flat, non porous surface to begin with. And paint is anything but perfectly flat and non porous. When you apply a pure polish you are, in fact, feeding those oils down into the pores of the paint. We know that in those debates on detailing forums many people insist that paint is "dry" and "impermeable" but that is flat out not correct. Even factory paint that has been oven cured still has some moisture to it in the form of whatever solvents, etc make up that paint. And over time, with exposure to the elements, that paint will continue to desiccate, sometimes to the point of failure.

That's why products like M105 that were designed to be used on fresh paint work best in that situation. Anyone who has experienced very fast drying and dusting of M105, or even gumming up of the product, needs look no further than the condition of the paint they're using it on. For me personally, I think back to that Ferrari 360 Modena I buffed out a couple of years ago where M105 did just that - it turned to a gummy mess almost immediately. Why? Because the paint (a clear coat, by the way, not single stage) was so dried out that it literally sucked the moisture out of M105 and into the paint. That can be a tough concept for those who believe paint to be completely "dry" to wrap their heads around. But switching to an oil rich product, in this case M80, did wonders for correcting that poor Ferrari. Spray a car, wet sand it a day or two later, then compound it with M105 and you won't see a ton of dust like you will when D/A correcting a used car that hasn't been pampered its whole life. And it's all down to the porosity and dryness of the paint.

So, what does that have to do with the question at hand? Simple - a pure polish applied to a paint surface, especially one that has experienced repeated exposure to the elements and is a bit more "weathered", will get down into those pores and effectively smooth out the finish. Applying a wax or sealant on top of that will actually give the wax/sealant a flatter, smoother base to lay over but still give plenty of paint surface for it to bond to. The rest of the final curing of the product locks it down over the polish. So the polish isn't actually creating a layer of oil on top of the paint, but rather filling the pores of the paint. A gel coat works the exact same way, but on a larger scale, so to speak. If you've ever worked on a dried out gel coat and applied a pure polish to it, you can literally watch that stuff get sucked into the finish. That is because gel coats are much thicker and far more porous than automotive paint, but the mechanism of what's happening is identical.

On a brand spanking new car fresh off the assembly line, a pure polish may make very little difference to the finish because the paint surface is still pretty "tight", meaning it hasn't yet aged, dried, opened up. Even applying a coat of wax often doesn't make a huge visual difference to paint that is that new. Now go to the opposite extreme - a badly oxidized single stage paint system, one where a red car now looks pink. A wax alone can make a huge visual improvement, but a pure polish will do much, much more. Obviously a proper paint cleaner is really called for in that case, but just looking at pure polishes it's obvious how much more dramatic the reaction is here compared to a fresh paint job. And in between these two extremes you'll find varying degrees of dryness, porosity, etc and the response to a pure polish will change accordingly. Clear coat systems may not be quite as dramatic, but the same sort of changes are still taking place.

[mattya802]

Re: Ultimate Wax

Awesome response, thanks for that Mike!