Scratches from pad?

[DSG Man]

Yesterday I washed my Mach 1 and noticed a couple water spots that needed a touchup. I applied some Scratch-X using the NXT Tech Wax applicator pad because it's all that was handy. Anyway, after one application I ended up with some severe scratches where I applied the product. I checked the pad as best I could and could not see any dirt-not that you could anyway. The pad was right out of a fresh package of NXT. SO I have to assume dirt might have been trapped in the foam pad prior to use. I tried removing the scratches with some more product and a terry towel with negative results so now I am gunshy about the foam pad. Is it safe to use a microfiber towel to apply cleaners/polishes or wax?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Scratches from pad?

Originally posted by DSG Man
Yesterday I washed my Mach 1 and noticed a couple water spots that needed a touch-up. I applied some Scratch-X using the NXT Tech Wax applicator pad because it's all that was handy. Anyway, after one application I ended up with some severe scratches where I applied the product. I checked the pad as best I could and could not see any dirt-not that you could anyway. The pad was right out of a fresh package of NXT. SO I have to assume dirt might have been trapped in the foam pad prior to use. I tried removing the scratches with some more product and a terry towel with negative results so now I am gun-shy about the foam pad. Is it safe to use a microfiber towel to apply cleaners/polishes or wax?

Hi DSG Man,

I've never experienced this before. I've been through plenty of foam pads out of the NXT Tech Wax box and never had a problem and often times when I use these pads I have 20-30 people standing by watching me use it on a club members car.

But the scratches are reality so let's address some possibilities for the cause and figure out an attack plan to remove them.

First off, on your Mach 1, just to make sure, were you working on the clear coat on the car? I think your car also has graphics on the hood and side and I just want to make we're addressing scratches in the clear coat.

Assuming the answer to the above question is "Yes", ScratchX by itself will not scratch paint, it will gently abrade it at a microscopic level, but it will not instill scratches like a rubbing compound or abrasive dirt particles on the surface. In order to instill a scratch into the paint, some type of abrasive particle must have been present or introduced during the process. Of the top of my head, here are the variables,

Abrasive particles could have been,

• * On the NXT Tech Wax pad
  * Somehow a part of the water spot/deposit
  * Introduced to the surface as a course of handling the products involved
  * Airborne particles introduced after washing and before application of ScratchX

Anyone else have any other ideas?

If the finish was completely scratch-free to start with, then it wouldn't take much of an abrasive particle to instill a visible scratch that would stand out like a sore thumb. Without being their, I cannot even guess where the scratches would have come from.

Do they look deep? Or are they light? Do you own a dual action polisher? Or a rotary buffer?

Let me be the first to admit I'm not much of a graphics person so bare with me... If we were to take a cross-section out of a clear coat finish with a single scratch running in one direction, this is what a magnified view would look like.




In order to remove a scratch out of a clear coat, (or any surface for that matter), a little bit of paint surrounding the scratch must be removed.

To do this by hand you need a product that can gently abrade the surface and remove small particles of paint in an effort to level the highest points of the surface with the lowest points of the scratch.




Meguiar's solution is to use a microscopic diminishing abrasive that starts out aggressive enough to abrade the paint, but as it's worked against the surface after abrading for a little while, it then breaks down. As it is breaking down and all the while being worked against the surface, as the diminishing abrasive particles become smaller, they act to remove and reduce even the marks they put in.



After a few applications, remove all of the residue and inspect, you should see a noticeable reduction in the size and visibility of the scratch.





If the scratch still remains, or portions of it, then more paint must be removed.



The limiting factor when it comes to removing scratches is the thickness, or film-build of your clear coat. And remember, all of your U.V. protection is in your car's clear coat, so the more clear coat you remove, the less U.V. protection you have left to protect the color coat over the service life of vehicle.

Originally posted by DSG Man
I tried removing the scratches with some more product and a terry towel with negative results

This is one of the reasons foam applicator pads are generally always recommended over terry cloth. The nap of the terry cloth acts as gentle form of abrasive that while fine for paint in bad condition, when used on a fine finish, it can leave scratches behind. The cure, (by hand), is usually to re-polish the area over again using a foam applicator pad.

Originally posted by DSG Man
So now I am gun-shy about the foam pad. Is it safe to use a microfiber towel to apply cleaners/polishes or wax?

The answer to this is Yes, but it needs to be the right style of microfiber or you could run into the same problem you ran into with the terry cloth towel.

What I would recommend, and if I were there, what I would do would be to try again with the ScratchX by hand.

Make sure the surface is completely clean. You mention this started because you noticed water spots on the finish.

There are two kinds of water spots,

1) Above Surface Mineral Deposits
2) Below Surface Water Spot Etchings


Type 1 water spots
If you have type 1 water spots, you can use a clay bar by hand. Clay bars are for removing above surface defects. Sometimes you may have to follow the claying process with a paint cleaner like ScratchX to completely remove all traces of where the mineral deposits attached to the finish.

Type 2 water spots
If you type 2 water spots, you can use a paint cleaner by hand, or a machine applied cleaner/polish, paint cleaner or in a worst case scenario, a compound.

If it's the deposits on the finish, then perhaps try claying the finish first just to make sure there is nothing sitting on top of the surface that could become loosened and drawn into the cleaning process.

After that, wash your hands, we want to take every precaution we can to remove any chances of introducing any abrasive particles. Think of this as going into surgery. Next, get a known good foam applicator pad. Then, take your tube of ScratchX, and wipe it down with a towel or microfiber before bring it to the car and opening the lid. We want to make sure there is no dirt or abrasive particles being transfered to the car from where the tube of ScratchX was stored.

(Before starting our Saturday Detailing classes, I wipe down the tables and the counter in the garage with All Purpose cleaner and a microfiber and then spray it down with an air hose and sometimes wipe it down a second time with a new clean cloth and some more All Purpose Cleaner before I set products, foam pads, tape, polishing cloths etc. out for the class.)


Once you have washed your hands, obtained a known good/clean foam applicator pad and have your ScratchX ready to go, apply then apply some ScratchX to your applicator pad like below,



And then work the ScratchX gently but with firm pressure over the scratches. Move your pad across the scratches, not in line with them. Focus your attention to a small work area about 6" to 8" square.



Work the product for 3-5 minutes. It should start out looking like an whitish/opaque film on the surface, as you work this product, it will be come clear and oily looking. Stop there, wipe off the residue and inspect or repeat depending on the results.

If this is not removing the defect then your car's paint is either very hard, or the scratches are very deep, or both. If this is the case, then we can look at trying one of our new Even Coat Applicator, which is a microfiber applicator pad which should offer a little more cleaning power than the foam applicator pad. I have a sample I can send you.





Like the label on the back of ScratchX states,

"If ScratchX cannot remove a scratch or blemish, only machine applied professional formulas can do the job"




If neither of the above two approaches work, then we will have to look at locating and using a G-100 Dual Action Polisher or a rotary buffer.

Mike

[DSG Man]

Mike,
I didn't mean for it to sound like the Scratch-X was the culprit. I was just thinking something must have been on the pad. As I mentioned I looked and couldn't see anything on the pad at that point (once it was too late). I initially applied the Scratch-X in a foward-backward motion. The scratches are what I'd term significant. I did reapply Scratch-X again with a microfiber towel in a circular motion twice in order to try to eliminate the scratches. No luck. Due to the time, I applied two coats of NXT prior to quitting for the evening. Nothing seemed to help.

I do have the Meguiars RO polisher, but it didn't do much on a previous occasion when I tried to remove a few fine scratches. I don't suppose MPPC would do any more than Scratch-X, would it?

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by DSG Man
Mike,
I didn't mean for it to sound like the Scratch-X was the culprit. I was just thinking something must have been on the pad. As I mentioned I looked and couldn't see anything on the pad at that point (once it was too late). I initially applied the Scratch-X in a forward-backward motion. The scratches are what I'd term significant. I did reapply Scratch-X again with a microfiber towel in a circular motion twice in order to try to eliminate the scratches. No luck. Due to the time, I applied two coats of NXT prior to quitting for the evening. Nothing seemed to help.

Hi DSG Man,

I didn't' take it as the ScratchX was the culprit, but over time a lot of people may read this thread so I try to write for a bigger audience.

I do have the Meguiar's RO polisher, but it didn't do much on a previous occasion when I tried to remove a few fine scratches. I don't suppose MPPC would do any more than Scratch-X, would it?

Yeah, that's the thing about the dual action polisher, it's so safe, (the reason people like it), that it's not always effective at removing defects. It depends on how hard the paint is.

You could try the Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner with a W-8006 foam polishing paint on the 4.5 to 5.0 setting. You never know what you can do until you try.

If these scratches are light/shallow, if it were me, I would try again using a new, clean foam applicator pad and the ScratchX. You see, if this won't remove it, this indicates to me that the paint must be fairly hard and it's going to be more complicated to remove them, such as using rotary buffer.

If you were closer, I'd drive over and fix it for you.

Mike

[DSG Man]

Thanks, Mike. I will have a couple stone chips taken car of soon by a custom body shop so I'll just have them polish it out.

[DSG Man]

Mike,

Well, I tried the MMPC a little while ago. Used the PC on 6 for several minutes and then gave it a shot of glaze and Viola! It was about 90% gone. I am sure another pass will remove the rest of it. Thanks...

Bob