Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

[CieraSL]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Interesting. But don't you think that the 50/50 IPA wipe down I did equates to paint that hasn't been waxed or sealed in a long time? I think it equals wax or sealant free paint.

Shane, have we switched sides on this debate?

Mike

Like I said before, there are so many ifs, ands, and buts involved in this debate that I'm sure it would be extremely hard to find a surefire answer given all the variables. To break down what I said, I still believe that claying removes wax but not the oils in the paint. As far as the 50/50 wipedown goes, water and alcohol don't mix, so the IPA solution probably creates a bit of surface tension itself. If you did a full strength wipedown for long enough you'd probably pull the "oils" out of the paint, but I don't see why you'd want to. Again, just my thoughts on the subject.

[Mikejl]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Like I said before, there are so many ifs, ands, and buts involved in this debate that I'm sure it would be extremely hard to find a surefire answer given all the variables. To break down what I said, I still believe that claying removes wax but not the oils in the paint. As far as the 50/50 wipedown goes, water and alcohol don't mix, so the IPA solution probably creates a bit of surface tension itself. If you did a full strength wipedown for long enough you'd probably pull the "oils" out of the paint, but I don't see why you'd want to. Again, just my thoughts on the subject.

OK, you covered a lot of points. Let me break them down a little:

1. Claying removes wax.
We both agree on that one.

2. Claying does not remove the oils in the paint
I don't know where these oils come from unless it's from the wax. I need more info.

3. Water and Alcohol don't mix
I didn't need them to stay mixed. I just needed to dilute the alcohol for the short term.

4. ...the IPA solution probably creates a bit of surface tension itself.
I don't see how. It was completely evaporated by the time I got around to spraying the trunk with water. See the second picture a few posts above.

5. If you did a full strength wipedown for long enough you'd probably pull the "oils" out of the paint
I wouldn't have thought that factory baked and cured paint would have any liquid oils left on its surface. I'm not saying there isn't, just that you will need to educate me on this.

Mike

[CieraSL]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

OK, you covered a lot of points. Let me break them down a little:

1. Claying removes wax.
We both agree on that one.

2. Claying does not remove the oils in the paint
I don't know where these oils come from unless it's from the wax. I need more info.

3. Water and Alcohol don't mix
I didn't need them to stay mixed. I just needed to dilute the alcohol for the short term.

4. ...the IPA solution probably creates a bit of surface tension itself.
I don't see how. It was completely evaporated by the time I got around to spraying the trunk with water. See the second picture a few posts above.

5. If you did a full strength wipedown for long enough you'd probably pull the "oils" out of the paint
I wouldn't have thought that factory baked and cured paint would have any liquid oils left on its surface. I'm not saying there isn't, just that you will need to educate me on this.

Mike

Well Mike, I wish I had an answer for you. I don't. Most of what I've stated in this thread has been based on my own personal observations and experiences and therefore has been speculation on my behalf. Which is pretty much all this thread has been - speculation. With regards to the IPA wipedown, I think that the alcohol in the IPA solution would have left some surface tension, even though it had evaporated. I have done some compounding/polishing on areas of cars that did not have any wax on them, yet when the area was sprayed down with water there was water beading in that area but not the surrounding area, which leads me to believe that almost anything you use on the paint will leave some sort of "residue" if you will behind, although certainly some will leave more than others, such as: wax will leave behind more surface tension than polish, because that is what it is designed to do. I don't have the slightest idea what the primary components of wax are - I'm not a chemist. But there are certain oils (haven't come up with a better term yet) in there that get into the pores of the paint and create surface tension if the car is waxed on a continuous basis, IMO. I don't know. I'm running out of things to say in this thread.

[Mikejl]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Well Mike, I wish I had an answer for you. I don't. Most of what I've stated in this thread has been based on my own personal observations and experiences and therefore has been speculation on my behalf. Which is pretty much all this thread has been - speculation. With regards to the IPA wipedown, I think that the alcohol in the IPA solution would have left some surface tension, even though it had evaporated. I have done some compounding/polishing on areas of cars that did not have any wax on them, yet when the area was sprayed down with water there was water beading in that area but not the surrounding area, which leads me to believe that almost anything you use on the paint will leave some sort of "residue" if you will behind, although certainly some will leave more than others, such as: wax will leave behind more surface tension than polish, because that is what it is designed to do. I don't have the slightest idea what the primary components of wax are - I'm not a chemist. But there are certain oils (haven't come up with a better term yet) in there that get into the pores of the paint and create surface tension if the car is waxed on a continuous basis, IMO. I don't know. I'm running out of things to say in this thread.

Shane,

Here is what I think. My paint is still new (a year old) and new paint even bare will have good surface tension and bead water. I think as long I take care of the paint and frequently replace the sacrificial coating of wax or sealant before it is gone, my bare paint will be able to bead water for many years to come.

I think when people neglect their paint, the paint surface starts to break down and the paint loses the surface tension it had when it was factory fresh and will no longer bead water.

Maybe the Mods can change my vote and we can retire this thread.

Mike

[kesawi]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

3. Water and Alcohol don't mix
I didn't need them to stay mixed. I just needed to dilute the alcohol for the short term.

Not getting involved in the argument, but just a technical correction. Water and alcohol do mix due to the prescence of hydrogen bonding between the alcohol and water molecules. If they didn't mix then you'd see layering in a bottle of scotch or other alcoholic drink.

[mattaleca]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

"There are two different grades of clay currently available to the public. One is a medium grade detailing clay designed to clean the vehicle once or twice a year. This grade of clay removes wax along with anything else on the vehicle. (non-quote: this would probably be like Meguiar's Professional Detailing Clay - Mild)
Your other option is a fine grade that’s relatively new to the industry....it's a favorite of enthusiasts who prefer to clay as often as needed to keep that slick finish. This detailing clay removes everything the medium clay removes and it is gentle enough to use monthly or as needed for spot cleaning. (non-quote: this is probably like the clay in the Smooth Surface Clay kit)

Why can't you use the Mild Clay as often. I realize that the Aggresive will haze and Micro-mar the finish but shouldn't the Mild be safe to use monthly, daily, hourly, etc.

[hacker-pschorr]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Well now, this thread sure has me questioning my usage of medium clay to remove bug pieces while on the road.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Regarding regular use of the C2000 Mild Detailing Clay - while it should be just fine for regular use, most people don't want to spend almost $30 on clay alone, plus if you're claying regularly the amount of bonded contaminants should be very light anyway, so the consumer clay should be sufficient to remove it. But if you prefer the blue mild C2000 clay there shouldn't be any problems using it regularly. Is it removing more wax than the consumer clay? Ah, the $64,000 question! When is the last time you waxed - how much wax do you really have left on the car anyway? If you're getting a lot of contaminants bonding to the paint, you're either exposing the car to a lot of crud and/or not waxing and maintaining the finish as often as you might. Of course there are always those unforeseen circumstances like parking downwind from a building being spray painted, but in that case you need some serious claying anyway.

For those of you doing IPA wipe down tests and still seeing a lot of beading, try washing the car with even a quality car wash soap after the wipe down. We mentioned this little test in post #25 of this thread, so at the risk of repetition: We did a small wax comparison test here last year where we sectioned a hood into 4 areas, with one being a "control" area. We use Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner to remove any wax that may have been on the surface, applied 3 different waxes but left the 4th section bare. A couple of weeks later, even after going through a couple days of light rain, all 4 sections of the hood beaded water when the car was first rinsed down. Certainly the section treated only with DC1 was not "protected" but the water would still bead. Two weeks later!!! Following a wash with Gold Class the DC1 section no longer beaded - the water just laid there in a sheet. Obviously something that was removed in the wash process altered the surface tension, eliminating the beading properties. Lots of different ways to "clean" a surface, huh?

[scott0999]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

I didnt know the claybar would remove wax. in the past I've been using dawn dish soap if I needed to remove wax

is claying a better idea? I usually end up claying anyway so if it does it all in 1 shot might as well forget using damn from now on lol

[Houckster]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

How much wax is removed when claying may well be partially a function of how well the wax was applied. If the surface was clean when the wax was applied and if a glaze was used to maximize adherence of the wax, the clay bar might not remove much wax at all since it seems that clay's benefit is to remove irregularities in the surface.

It is probably logical to assume that whether claying removes wax is situational.

Here's two things I'm going to do the next time I have an opportunity to clay my ride: 1) I'll use fresh clay and go over a clean waxed surface to see if there's any change in the color of the clay; 2) I'll just clay part of the surface and compare the beading of the two areas.

[jfelbab]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

My experience is that clay will remove some, maybe even most, of the wax or sealant. I'd suggest the correct term might be compromise. Clay will compromise any wax or sealant coating. I would not assume that it will remove all of the wax or sealant. As clay is mostly gliding across your paint on a thin layer of lubricant, sheering off things that are sticking out above the surface, it will remove some of the wax or sealant but most likely not all. If you want to be sure that it is all removed I'd use a paint cleaner.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Here's two things I'm going to do the next time I have an opportunity to clay my ride: 1) I'll use fresh clay and go over a clean waxed surface to see if there's any change in the color of the clay; 2) I'll just clay part of the surface and compare the beading of the two areas.

It is unlikely that you'll see any change in color of the clay due to wax being removed from the surface. As for point 2, what are you going to use as a clay lube? Virtually any quick detail spray is going to leave enough of something behind that there will be a change of surface tension relative to fully bare paint, and that alone will likely cause water beading. Remember, beading alone is not a sign of protection. You can use a basic cleaner/polish to effectively remove any wax or sealant on the surface but it you'll still bead water like crazy, at least for a while.

[Aussie Glossy]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

imho claying does not remove wax because I've given many cars some serious claying for hours and gone to machine correction and the wax is hindering the products
That's why I use a neutralisation system and silicone removers before I start correcting and polishing or non abrasive paint restoration

[jdmh22]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

ok i sorry to bring this thread back form the dead but i have a question. I got done detailing my car yesterday, did the wash, paint cleaner, polish, and wax process. But know i can feel some spot on my car's paint need to be clay. So the question is after i clay my car do i have to polish the part that i just clay again and then apply wax or just apply wax after clay. Thank you in advance

[TOGWT]

Re: Does Claying Really Remove Wax?

Will detailer’s clay remove the applied paint film surface protection?

It will remove an organic wax product; any oxidized polymer will be removed; but not any polymer that has formed a molecular bond with the paint surface

See also - Article on Detailer’s Automotive Clay - http://tinyurl.com/yfly44e