Single Stage Paint

[3Fitty]

So, I've been searching on the forum and can't find exactly what I'm looking for, but since a lot of the products I will be referencing are new, maybe it is appropriate to start a new thread.

A few weeks ago, I started a thread about my mother's beat up Honda Civic. Since I wrote that thread, I figured a few things out which some guys at Autopia helped me out with, before the tribe had spoken.

Here is my grande revelation... the car is a 2001 Taffeta-White SINGLE STAGE paint job (in case you're interested paint code NH-578). I have to be honest, I almost always ignore posts about SS paint because I almost feel like "nobody does SS paint anymore". Add to that, the original thread I started here http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...e+Stage&page=2 where Mike Phillips commented on SS white paint often being very "hard".

My questions are now related to this SS paint?

Does my process for correction change, if so, how? I noticed that car had plenty'o'swirls, but now I'm thinking they are scratches (can you have swirls in SS paint???). In any event, this car is in need of help and I don't know if the process is the same or different.

I clayed the car last time, but it didn't have that "super slick" feel after it was done, yet the clay wasn't that bad. I would pass over an area multiple times and the clay (new) would remain clean, yet the surface wasn't ultra slick.

In any event, here is everything I'll have in my tool box when I get to work on this car again. Please tell me how I should approach this car? My goal is to get it feeling slick, looking shiny and getting an LSP over it so it stops "absorbing" dirt which seems to stain the paint (it's like the paint is very porous - if that makes sense).

Here is what I have:

G110

Lots of 8006, 7006, 9006 pads.
Lots of LC CCS 4" pads (orange, white for cutting)

M80
M83
M205
M105
ScratchX
ScratchX 2.0
D151
DC Paint Cleaner

M07

NXT 2.0
Meg's Cleaner Wax
GC Wax
M26

[roushstage2]

Re: Single Stage Paint

Single Stage paint is great IMO.

The correction process stay the same. You can have swirls in SS paint, though it seems you tend not to notice them as much as they do not seem to take on the same pattern if you will as on BC/CC paint, at least all that I have seen.

SS paint feels different IMO compared to BC/CC before it is cleaned/polished/and waxed. I can clay my truck and generally not feel too big of a difference. Maybe it is because of the specific type of SS paint?? After doing the process, it feels smooth as glass.

Again, the process will be the same. Set up a test spot and find out what works. M07 will be a great product to use as it was made for single stage paint. Whichever wax you choose, remember, SS paint has to maintained more frequently to keep it looking great. Plan on waxing it more often than a BC/CC car. Unlike a BC/CC, when the wax starts to wear down, the paint will start to oxidize and therefore dull again.

[3Fitty]

Re: Single Stage Paint

I know I've read others rave about SS paint, but let me put my skeptical hat on for a minute and ask you this (this is a serious question and not being asked in a bad way)...

If SS was great, good or better than modern CC paints, why are most paint jobs CC?

I sincerely don't know the answer. Maybe CC is cheaper, looks better.... who knows. Just curious.

[hot rod]

Re: Single Stage Paint

I work on alot of classics that have ssp. I have had very good luck with M95 M105 & some 800 cut on bad ss. The 800 cut is from a different company.

[Megafast13]

Re: Single Stage Paint

The process is the same for SS paints. They will tend to Oxidize and dull thus making them way different than BC/CC

The reason why everyone started using the clearcoat method is because:

It's much, much cheaper- because you are using such a small amount of paint and a lot of clear.

Although there is clearcoat failure, there is less maintenance for the average owner.

It is also much faster for the robots at the production line to do the cars.

[roushstage2]

Re: Single Stage Paint

I know I've read others rave about SS paint, but let me put my skeptical hat on for a minute and ask you this (this is a serious question and not being asked in a bad way)...

If SS was great, good or better than modern CC paints, why are most paint jobs CC?

I sincerely don't know the answer. Maybe CC is cheaper, looks better.... who knows. Just curious.

The process is the same for SS paints. They will tend to Oxidize and dull thus making them way different than BC/CC

The reason why everyone started using the clearcoat method is because:

It's much, much cheaper- because you are using such a small amount of paint and a lot of clear.

Although there is clearcoat failure, there is less maintenance for the average owner.

It is also much faster for the robots at the production line to do the cars.

It is more so that with SS paint, if not taken care of fairly meticulously, starts to look like junk to the masses (dull, faded, not shiney looking). BC/CC paint can handle much more abuse and neglect and still look shiney and purty, etc. to most people. A lot of people never wax and hardly wash their BC/CC cars and yet they shine the entire time they own them.

BC/CC, on the contrary I'd think, costs more than a SS paint job. 2 stages of painting versus one, more time, etc. Go to a shop and ask them for a quote for a single stage paint job (if they even do these anymore) versus a 2 stage job. What is going to be quicker, spraying color and clear mixed in one shot or laying down the color layer, letting dry or tack or whatever the time period is and prepping for the clear and then spraying the clear....

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Single Stage Paint

The reason single stage white paint tends to be very hard has to do with the pigment used to create the white color. I think that's what you're referring to in this article.

The Lesson White Paint Teaches Us


Paint technology is always changing so it's usually not a good idea to make blanket statements about paint systems. A better idea is to wait till you go out into your garage and actually start working on the paint itself and after testing out some product you'll get a pretty good idea as to how polishable or workable the paint is or not. This article touches on the topic of paint softness and blanket statements...

What is the meaning of soft paint?

When I wrote "The Lesson White Paint Teaches Us" article, about 1992 or so, products like Ultimate Compound weren't around, so it could be even if the paint is very hard, with our new SMA Technology removing defects like swirls and scratches will be just as easy as working on any paint system.

"You don't know what you can do until you try"


Also, the article isn't about white paint, it's about paint getting dirty if your car is a daily driver but if you have a dark colored car you probably won't see the dirt build-up on and in the paint.

As for the reason the industry changed there were a number of reasons, the major driver behind the change in the United States of America was the EPA which introduced tighter restrictions and regulations on releasing solvents into the air. I think this article touches on this topic,


My Hatred of Clear Coats
(The guy that started this thread made two posts and we never seen him again?)

Besides the Environmental Protection Agency, another reason is because clear coat paints tend to last longer and resist oxidizing. There's a number of reasons for how it does this but one is that paint is generally speaking harder than traditional single stage paints and the hardness give it better durability among other things.


The problem with this is people confuse last longer with look good longer and anyone that's been a member of this forum for any length of time knows about the problems most people have with swirls in their clear coat and how unsightly they are to us car crazy enthusiasts...

All things being equal, a swirled-out clear coat will last just as long as a swirl-free clear coat.


Where are you at with this project?

[3Fitty]

Re: Single Stage Paint

Where are you at with this project?

I think I'm still at the "learning" stage of the project. Up until last night, I didn't even know I was working on a single stage paint, as I thought they had pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur!

Now that I know what I'm dealing with I plan to to a FULL correction (or as much as my G110 + M105 combo will let me do).

The problem I've encountered with this car is that I did the entire car with D151 just over two weeks ago and finished it off with Collinite 476s. After two weeks of being driveway parked and exposed to snow and road salt the car was "dirt stained" again.

I went to wash it (power washing first) and a simple was would not get the new stains out. It's like the paint is very porous and is absorbing dirt.

It also seems like I didn't have an LSP on the car at all. After two weeks there was no beading, no sheeting water, no nothing. I just want to try to bring this car to a good place, put an LSP on it and have it be able to repel staining.

[3Fitty]

Re: Single Stage Paint

Hey Mike, would you recommend M80 or M205 for SS paint?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Single Stage Paint

Hey Mike, would you recommend M80 or M205 for SS paint?

Definitely go with the new SMA Technology for modern paint systems...

If M205 is not aggressive enough then switch to M105

[ZB420]

Re: Single Stage Paint

Hate to dig up an old thread but I found it on Google.
I just got a SS paint job at 1Day Paint Shop, they use Sherwin-Williams Urethane Paint.
I know my car was prepped correctly because my body shop instructed them on what they wanted them to do.

The car was painted the end of May. I just want to keep it from fading and oxidizing as much as possible.

It's washed weekly, waxed monthly and Maguiar's UD bi-weekly. I try to keep it as clean of **** particles as possible.

With that said and knowing that this car is not garaged... what should I expect from this paint job as far as looks.
What can I do, to slow the process of aging on the paint?

Thanks

[Murr1525]

Re: Single Stage Paint

Be carefull with the detailing sprays... after a few days, you may be past light dust, and better off just leaving it till you wash.

As far as caring for it, just have to give it a regular detail, being sure to clean and polish regularly to moisturize the paint. You could look at something like:

1. Wash: good quality wash, 2 buckets, good towels, etc..
2. Clay as needed: Smooth Surface Clay kit
3. Clean/Polish: Ult. Polish or #80 Speed Glaze are nice mild cleaner/polishes, with lots of oils in them, which SS paint likes.
4. Wax - You favorite wax
5. Wax - 2 thin coats are best
6. Maintain - Ult. Quick Wax is nice after future washes, when not detailing.

A quicker detail that also gets nice results is:
1. Wash
2. Clay if needed
3. ColorX - This is a cleaner/wax, which will cover the mild cleaner, some polishing oils, and a coat of wax at once. Not as much oils as a seperate product, but better than nothing when short on time.
4. Wax

[BillyJack]

Re: Single Stage Paint

It's washed weekly, waxed monthly and Maguiar's UD bi-weekly. I try to keep it as clean of **** particles as possible.
With that said and knowing that this car is not garaged... what should I expect from this paint job as far as looks.
What can I do, to slow the process of aging on the paint?
Thanks

There's no reason why a SS paint job can't last nearly forever. The paint in this picture is 24 years old.


It sounds like you have a good routine. About the only thing I would consider is either a cleaner wax or polish every other month. Fresh paint, as it cures for the first few months, will "skin", kinda like pudding. A mild abrasive will help renew the surface slightly every time you use it. M80 might be too aggressive on a regular basis, maybe just a yearly or twice a year thing, but polishes such as Ultimate polish or M05, M07 or Deep Crystal polish can be used as often as you desire. Your white urethane is much, much harder than my burgundy lacquer, so don't be afraid to polish when time and energy level allow and you'll keep it nice for a long time.

Bill

[Poki]

Re: Single Stage Paint

My 15 year old motor home has dark navy blue SS paint on the lower part. I have tried many products over the years and only got satisfactory results. Just this year I tried M80 at the recommendation of this forum and WaLA!!! The paint never looked that good with any other product. It seems SS paint can get dry and it looks dull. M80 has oils that are needed. Also, it's very easy to use on and off. Color X works well to maintane the gloss.

[zbestwun2001]

Re: Single Stage Paint

Thanks... everyone!

Looks like I have 2 accounts... hmmmm...