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Help! Traffic ticket?

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  • #1

    Help! Traffic ticket?

    Get this; I was picking my friend up from the airport, and I was stopped at a stoplight with a crosswalk right in front of me. My friend walks down the crosswalk, gets in my car, and after the light turned green, the cop asked me to pull over!

    I had to ASK him why I got pulled over! He never even said 'do you know why you got pulled over' rather just asked for my registration and license. After he gave me a 3 minute jabbing away (without giving a definitive answer) on why someone shouldn't get in a car from the crosswalk, he spent another 20+ minutes writing the ticket only for me to finally see what the 'official' reason he pulled me over for written on the ticket. Turned out the official reason was that I was '22400 (a) cvc minimum speed law (blocking traffic)'....while stopped at a red light! I simply was as kind as possible, because if there is anything I know, it is that the place you argue about it is in the courtroom, otherwise if you piss an officer off they can really screw you over.

    Grr.....

    Does anyone have any advice or insight?
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Help! Traffic ticket?

    Well, you can go to court and protest it and if he doesn't show, then you don't have to pay. If he does, then I believe you can get another trial by jury date, I believe, but could be wrong...

    I learned that helping my brother study for his Texas gov't exam, so it might be different for you.

    How much is going to set you back?

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Help! Traffic ticket?

      Originally posted by jpitt1987 View Post
      Well, you can go to court and protest it and if he doesn't show, then you don't have to pay. If he does, then I believe you can get another trial by jury date, I believe, but could be wrong...

      I learned that helping my brother study for his Texas gov't exam, so it might be different for you.

      How much is going to set you back?
      Not quite accurate anymore...but close

      Most states now have the laws set that even if the cop does not show their testimony from their ticket alone is enough to prove the violation unless you make a sufficient case that the situation was different. A simple "no show" no longer gets you off the hook.

      Also, your *first visit to the court room will always be your arraignment, or in plain terms, you enter a plea (guilty or not guilty) and choose to either have a trial in person (They don't have actual juries for traffic citations, just a judge), or a Trial By Declaration (written trial) where all correspondence is done through the mail (you write your case and mail it in, officer does the same, and a judge reads them and decides).

      If you LOSE the written trial you have the right to a "trial de novo" aka a new trial where you can then go to court for an actual hearing in person. At that point you get a clean slate and can plead your case again, as will the officer in front of a live judge.

      In my opinion, this might be a good case for trying the trial by declaration. Choose your words carefully, and make sure to get it in on time or early.

      Good luck!

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Help! Traffic ticket?

        Thanks for correcting it, I knew I was probably off.

        Agreed, don't let this just go by. I would say just pay it, like the case of my brother almost doing 2x...you can't really get around that. But in your situation I would definitely get some clarification..if not justice!

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Help! Traffic ticket?

          Originally posted by Lumadar View Post
          Not quite accurate anymore...but close

          Most states now have the laws set that even if the cop does not show their testimony from their ticket alone is enough to prove the violation unless you make a sufficient case that the situation was different. A simple "no show" no longer gets you off the hook.

          Also, your *first visit to the court room will always be your arraignment, or in plain terms, you enter a plea (guilty or not guilty) and choose to either have a trial in person (They don't have actual juries for traffic citations, just a judge), or a Trial By Declaration (written trial) where all correspondence is done through the mail (you write your case and mail it in, officer does the same, and a judge reads them and decides).

          If you LOSE the written trial you have the right to a "trial de novo" aka a new trial where you can then go to court for an actual hearing in person. At that point you get a clean slate and can plead your case again, as will the officer in front of a live judge.

          In my opinion, this might be a good case for trying the trial by declaration. Choose your words carefully, and make sure to get it in on time or early.

          Good luck!
          SPOT ON

          You could take a chance during arraignment and have a trial and hope the cop doesn't show up. When you show up to the trial date, if he is on vacation or doesn't show up and the court asks you to continue it, object to the continuation and DO NOT CONTINUE. They will dismiss it.

          If you go the route of a court trial, bring your friends and have them as witnesses, the court will not ask them questions, you have to ask them questions (act as an attorney). Like: The light was red when they entered the car etc. The cop will get to cross examine your testimony (if he chooses) and cross examine your witnesses(if he chooses). Address the court when talking about your case. Don't refer to the cop as "this guy" or point or throw your hands up while he is talking etc. Be professional as the cop would, in his dress A uniform and rehearsed his speech a million times on million other cases (if he's been around enough). Find out when your court does court trials and watch other people do it if you want. I've had others do that while in my court, a few won by their demeanor and what not. They learned what to ask their witnesses and what to ask the cop without looking like a jerk.

          Trial by declaration, choose words carefully as stated, state facts and leave any emotion out. Have your friends write declarations for you and do the same for you (Facts, no emotion, not like "this dude pulled us over".

          I can't remember if it's a moving violation or not and traffic school is an option if you end up losing (if it is a moving violation)

          Good luck

          Aaron
          Bailiff-Superior Court (former, now back in the jail)

          Sorry my fellow L.E.O.'s helpin' a kid out
          Philippians 2:14 - Do all things without grumbling or questioning,

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Help! Traffic ticket?

            WS (and others),

            The first thing which was initially pointed out (by Lumadar I think) is it depends on your jurisdiction and how the rules apply in your jurisdiction. Based upon his explanation, I can tell you that Cali is nothing like NY. I've handled traffic tickets in three States (NY, NJ and CT) and they all differ greatly.

            For example, in NJ you can get a ticket from a cop based on an unwitnessed event and almost NO investigation (I recently fought a serious one of these which included the death of an 18 year old girl and won).

            In NY, no such ticket could EVER survive and the ticket depends upon the appearance of the officer.

            A couple of other procedural items (that are different in my jurisdiction). On the back of our tickets is where we enter our plea and we have the option of requesting a "written deposition" by the ticketing officer. THIS IS CRUCIAL IN NY, because it lays the foundation for cross examination of the officer at time of trial. However, unless he goofs, I think you have a loser of a case, because it sounds like your word against his and Judges (bench trial), almost always side with officers in these situations (at least they do in the 3 jurisdictions I've been in).

            Let me explain my situation with this EXACT scenario...

            Many years ago (before I was a lawyer), my mother was at a train station picking up my sister. She stopped at a red light and my sister saw her, got in the car and my mother was given a ticket EXACTLY like you. We were amazed. I told her (I was probably about 19 at the time) that I would fight the ticket for her.

            We went to traffic Court and we were the 4th case to be called. The three cases before us were all identical. Same cop, same light, same set of facts.

            Each time the defendant's stated that they were already stopped at the light and someone either got in or out of their vehicle. The Judge dismissed all three cases and at the end of the third one he says to the Prosecutor, "aren't you two (meaning the cop) going to do something about your testimony" (out loud and in open Court BUT NOT ON THE RECORD).

            We're up next.

            Prosecutor: At the time Ms. ________________ vehicle was stopped, what color was the light?

            Lying Cop: Green.

            I cross examined him and couldn't get anything good from him and when I asked him about the three other cases, right before ours, I was castigated by the Judge. "Don't you dare comment on other cases unless you have copies of those transcripts".

            I put my Mom on the stand and my sister and they both testifed the light was red. My sister said, "I was only able to get over to the car because the light was red and traffic was already stopped".

            We lost. Judge ruled that the prosecution proved their case.

            My sense is that you might get hosed in the same way.
            ----------------------------------

            3Fitty - Now recommending products I have never used.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Help! Traffic ticket?

              Originally posted by Nappers View Post
              Aaron
              Bailiff-Superior Court (former, now back in the jail)

              Sorry my fellow L.E.O.'s helpin' a kid out

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Help! Traffic ticket?

                Just a thought but if you were at the airport, or even near the airport. Don't they have video surveillance? Might show the light red and you stopped. I would be guessing you wouldn't have a chance of getting that part of the tape but just a thought. I have no idea on legal issues.

                I got a speeding ticket once. Went to court just to see how it all works. The judge cut my ticket in half because I showed up. I didn't argue, just plead no contest. I was almost the last one on the list. It was interesting to listen to all the other cases.
                Scott

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Help! Traffic ticket?

                  If it occurred at an airport, this was from a US Government/FAA cop? If so, iirc, there may be somewhat different set of court procedures, etc.

                  It seems your defense would be "Your Honor, I was stopped at the red light at intersection X." You have a witness. Possibly, a chat with the prosecuting attorney will take care of this matter just prior to the hearing. Of course, the cop could claim you were driving slow enough for the charge before you came to the red light.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Help! Traffic ticket?

                    its police like this that give the whole police force a bad reputation

                    i wish there would be some consequence on his part when you win your case..... even when you win it still gave you lots of hassle.....

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Help! Traffic ticket?

                      Big thank you to all our forum members that chimed in with experience and background knowledge on this matter and posted their suggestions to help Wolf-Strong out.

                      Just goes to show the wide spectrum of people that we have on our forum always willing to help out...

                      "Each one teach one"

                      Mike Phillips
                      760-515-0444
                      showcargarage@gmail.com
                      "Find something you like and use it often"

                      Comment

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