Rotary Good and Bad - Help

[bindog]

Hey guys

Hello from sunny South Africa

I picked up a ryobi rotary this last weekend and some #80 and followed the following process...

Washed Clayed Washed etc all by the book using Megs products...
Then I used DC1 to clean the paint and started with the rotary, panel by panel... first time i've ever used any kind of machine but Im patient and I read a lot on this forum for tips.....

Now I have a few questions...

When I initially started on a small section of the bonnet with the rotary I prepped the pad with a mist of quick detailer and then dropped a line of product on the area....

I used about 600rpm to spread and then followed the zenith method with speeds etc and i actually saw the product breaking down into an oily sort of residue which i thought was correct...

Carried on moving onto different areas using the same technique but as I went I noticed less and less of the same oily breakdown of #80????? I cleaned the pad regularly with a medium toothbrush cos its all i had handy... what could cause me not seeing the same breakdown pattern???

So i got the bonnet done... looked good under halogen light so i moved onto the roof.... Now here's another thing I dont get... I applied product to the surface as I did before, but as I started to spread the product it almost instantly seemed to dry up????? surface was cool but the product wouldnt even spread properly it just seemed to dry and clump together??? Is this a pad issue or too much/little product???

Last question for all you detailing experts.... I have virtually no buffer trails or holograms on the bonnet but few on the roof which I think could be attributed to the above problem I had... I've read that you guys suggest using a DA to obliterate any holograms etc after a rotary job, but could they also be removed by hand using something like DC2????

Your advice would be greatly appreciated...

Marcus

[christian6984]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

Hiya marcus

before i start i must confess am not a rotary user, when you say the polish was not breaking down on the roof do you mean it was flash drying and dusting. i am just thinking not about the panel temprarure but the external conditions are prob hot and humid i can presume and may cause problems, e.g. Menzerna plays up in england when the tempratures are low.

The buffer trails could be from the product not being abled to be worked properly. to eradicate them follow up with something less say #80 and finishing pad keeping the speed relatively low, if not i dont know if DC1/2 can be used via rotary but then giving them a go by hand may be a consideration if not the easiers of work.

If it comes to the point of needing a DA the Megs G220/PC7424 which i do use is a brilliant machine and so safe.

Hope this was some help, sure the pro's will be a bit more use than me so would get a few responces from them

Christian

[bindog]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

hey thanks for the quick response...

Im not sure what flash drying is but on the roof as soon as I took the buffer to the product on the surface, it seemed to almost instantly dry??? then it wouldnt spread properly .... nightmare....

[christian6984]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

i belive thats flash drying i have experienced it with the PC (DA). it could be the polishs reaction to the ambient temprature. try a bit more moisture on the pad to keep it going or a slighly bit more products (not too much) at a slowish rate, other suggestions, just feel the roofs surface, i know you have clayed and used DC1 which should give the perfect surface for working on, make sure the roof is completly smooth, another claying session if not.

I am some what puzzled by this though, if starting with a new pad some of the product will be initially absorbed into the pad so may be ok after a few trys.

Hope this helps, i would like some of the rotary uses to advise before you go ahead with anything as my lack of use may mean there is something i am not considering. i have read some posts on problems of sticky paint on range rovers and subaru imprezas recently, it may mean a change of product. i use www.detalingworld.co.uk if thats any use there is plenty of information about any tools, products, processes and anyone is really helpful like here but there tends to be more people in the day if you need a quick responce.

Thanx Christian

[bindog]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

thanks christian... yeah i forget the time difference from me to you its 1:09PM here now... oops

[christian6984]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

yeah always forget that its 12.45 in England and About 6.45 over there according to http://24timezones.com/

[yalerd]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

Hi Marcus,

I'll be asking some questions to see if I can help myself and others understand your problem
What are you working on?
Did you clean the pad on a fly? (Cleaning Your Pad On The Fly)
Have you tried changing the pad for a new clean on?

Your problem could be related to temperature problems or that you pad is already too saturated, I've had this experience with #83, cleaning the pad on a fly is always a must but it comes to a part where you'll have to chance the pad for a new clean one and the product will perform and behave as when you started using it in the first section.

Maybe some pictures of what the product is doing could help out

i have read some posts on problems of sticky paint on range rovers and subaru imprezas recently, it may mean a change of product.

I have a Subaru Impreza (made in Japan, I know for sure that Australia has this same model, don't know if UK has it as well) but it's not that the product sticks, in the bumper the paint is very very sensitive, so a product like #80, #83 will mar the finish and you'll see like a gummy look, to solve this problem you'll need a very light aggressive combination, something like #82 with the W9006 pad or some A12 Cleaner Wax

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

Hey guys

Then I used DC1 to clean the paint and started with the rotary, panel by panel...

DC1 is not formulated for or intended to be used with a rotary buffer.

first time i've ever used any kind of machine but Im patient and I read a lot on this forum for tips.....

Usually takes a few cars to become skilled and experienced with a rotary buffer, so give yourself some credit for doing as good as you are so far.

Now I have a few questions...

I used about 600rpm to spread and then followed the zenith method with speeds etc and i actually saw the product breaking down into an oily sort of residue which i thought was correct...

Carried on moving onto different areas using the same technique but as I went I noticed less and less of the same oily breakdown of #80?????

You're talking about the DC1 correct? Part of the problem is that it's not for use with a rotary buffer, try switching to M83, have a few extra clean pads to use over the entire care as M83 works best with a clean, fresh pad.

600 RPM is pretty slow for working a product with a rotary buffer, try bringing your RPM's up to 1500 or thereabouts...

I cleaned the pad regularly with a medium toothbrush cos its all i had handy... what could cause me not seeing the same breakdown pattern???

You're talking about DC1 correct? (just want to make sure we know what product you're using), could be the pad has become saturated with product, not just on the surface but inside the pad. A quick experiment you can try anytime buffing with a chemical becomes difficult is to switch to a clean, dry pad and see if the product goes back to buffing good again.

So i got the bonnet done... looked good under halogen light so i moved onto the roof.... Now here's another thing I dont get... I applied product to the surface as I did before, but as I started to spread the product it almost instantly seemed to dry up????? surface was cool but the product wouldnt even spread properly it just seemed to dry and clump together??? Is this a pad issue or too much/little product???

You're talking about DC1 correct? Sounds like it's time to switch to a clean, dry pad and if this is happening with DC1 let's try substituting a product from our Professional Line that's for use with a rotary buffer.

Last question for all you detailing experts.... I have virtually no buffer trails or holograms on the bonnet but few on the roof which I think could be attributed to the above problem I had... I've read that you guys suggest using a DA to obliterate any holograms etc after a rotary job,

but could they also be removed by hand using something like DC2????

No. DC2 is a non-abrasive pure polish. You might be able to remove the holograms by hand using DC1 or ScratchX, keep in mind that removing holograms means removing paint, so you'll have to work the product, not just apply it and wipe it off.

[christian6984]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

Hi Marcus,

I have a Subaru Impreza (made in Japan, I know for sure that Australia has this same model, don't know if UK has it as well) but it's not that the product sticks, in the bumper the paint is very very sensitive, so a product like #80, #83 will mar the finish and you'll see like a gummy look, to solve this problem you'll need a very light aggressive combination, something like #82 with the W9006 pad or some A12 Cleaner Wax

Hiya, yeah we have the subaru impreza in the uk, i think there they have just changed it here to a hatchback this last year, brilliant cars.

[Justin Murphy]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

The big thing with the rotary is not to give up. Make yourself use it. It will seem and actually will take more time than a DA for a while. I've been using one for a year now and still have no means mastered it. I mainly use it for vehicles and boats that are in horrible condition or when I wet sand. Once mastered, it can give you a finish like no other tool due it's power and heating. One thing is that you will have to use more product than you do with a DA but make sure that product is made for the rotary. Wool is a great tool to use with the rotary also.

Just stick with it. Mike and the others gave you some great advice!!!

[bindog]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

ok guys here is the response to your responses

I only ever used dc1 by hand on the panel before I switched to #80 on the rotary... I have not yet mixed any products on the pad and wont do so as Ive read its a nono.... I cleaned the pad after pretty much every panel with a medium bristle toothbrush...

It was just strange how nearly as soon as the rotary made contact with the surface, I barely got a chance to spread the #80 before it dried up and I was left with a clumpy sort of dry product that I removed by hand and then tried again and again etc....

Over the weekend I experienced similair problems but I must say I inspected the car in daylight yesterday and I see virtually no buffer trail / holograms so Im quite happy with that....

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

It was just strange how nearly as soon as the rotary made contact with the surface, I barely got a chance to spread the #80 before it dried up and I was left with a clumpy sort of dry product that I removed by hand and then tried again and again etc....

This doesn't sound right, there has to be something simple we need to tweak to get you successfully working the M80

Clean pad
Clean surface - The paint doesn't need to be clayed does it?
1300 to 1500 RPM
Work a small section at a time, about 2 feet square or the width of your shoulders.
Hold the pad flat at all times when possible
Move the buffer using a medium arm speed, not too fast but not too slow
Medium pressure to start with then after a few passes lighten up to just a little more than the weight of the machine.
Buff for about 1-2 minutes
Quit buffing before you get to a dry buff
You're not working on a hot surface
You're not working in the sun

Anything out of place with the above?

After using M80 with a rotary buffer on a clear coat finish you'll usually want to do a second step polishing process using either a different product, (less aggressive like M82 or M09), or change to a different machine like a DA Polisher.

[bindog]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

possibly the only problem there mike is that i started spreading the product very slowly like at 600 rpm... and then increased the speed but i dont think i got up as high as 1500rpm... just wary of the buffer at this stage

car is clean... clayed it twice between MULTIPLE two bucket washes... i think maybe ill try again at a slightly higher speed

I must say i was impressed that i managed nearly no buffer trail / holograms... just wondering when its time to get my #83 cos there's still a few slight scratches on the hood that i want to remove.

Mike will I use the other products u mentioned with a finishing pad???? I work slowly and patiently sometimes only 1 panel a night while I'm learning.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

possibly the only problem there mike is that i started spreading the product very slowly like at 600 rpm... and then increased the speed but i dont think i got up as high as 1500rpm... just wary of the buffer at this stage

Try watching the videos on the rotary buffer in the video section of the Information Station. Watch to see how to pick up a bead or strip of product, that way you can start out with your RB stet at a higher RPM and pick up your product under your pad without slinging it all over the place.

Now buff the product, even though you're a bit wary of the RB you'll find products buff easier and the RB is easier to guide at a higher RPM. This should also remove the problems you were having with the product.

I must say i was impressed that i managed nearly no buffer trail / holograms... just wondering when its time to get my #83 cos there's still a few slight scratches on the hood that i want to remove.

If you're first product of choice isn't working fast enough or isn't aggressive enough to remove the defects then substitute a more aggressive product.

Sometimes it's safer to sand the deeper scratches out and then remove your sanding marks versus buff and buff and buff on the surface which removes paint everywhere, not just the scratches.

Check this out, Feathersanding, probably a bit past your experience and skill level but something to consider in the future.

Mike will I use the other products u mentioned with a finishing pad???? I work slowly and patiently sometimes only 1 panel a night while I'm learning.

Yes, a finishing pad. Working with M82 and M09 gives you great results but you need to clean your pad very often and even switch to a clean, dry pad if you start experiencing any gumming up problems.

[bindog]

Re: Rotary Good and Bad - Help

hey mike

thanks again for the valuable advice and info...

I will look into the feathersanding concept too... must just decide whether its WORTH it considering how noone else can see the defects except myself... but ill definitely consider it

As for picking up a bead of product Im proud to say i got that right early on when working on relatively horizontal panels like the roof and bonnet...

How do you apply such a technique when working on doors though???

My car is very dark blue astra coupe turbo and I want her to be spotless before this year is over... inside and out...