Need some sanding advice!

[raffaelli]

Hi, this is my first post here. I have an issue that I need to try to resolve. Other than this, I have never painted a car before.
I have a 91 CRX. It is a non street legal race car. I do not need a showroom finish but I would like it to be decent -40 feet at 40mph kind of thing.
The original paint was faded and flakey. I hand sanded the car, some places to metal, most to what looked like good OE paint. I used www.paintforcars.com single stage. The first time I applied the paint, I mixed the paint, reducer and hardener according to the directions. I painted outside, it was about 55 degrees. I had lots of orange peel and various levels of gloss. I sanded the car flat again. I repainted without the hardener about 6 coats. A buddy of mine who is a painter did it for me. Again, outside, in 55 degrees. The level of gloss was the same, lots of orange peel and fish eye. About a month later he can back to sand and buff for me. He did one quarter panel. It looks good to me. He got rid of 99% of the peel. The fish eye remains. I can live with it. The shine is good.
My problem is that he has vanished. I need to get the rest of the car sanded and buffed. I don't know what to use. He used a couple different 3M (1500 and 2000?) sanding discs and some kind of pad with two different fluids -some German name. Can you let me what I need to get and how to do it?
Also, why did it orange peel? Bad paint? Clueless painter? Too cold? Lousy prep? I suppose the fish eye is because I did not have a moisture trap?
Thanks!
Chris

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

If you have an air powered DA Sander, definitely invest in either the Mirka Abralon or 3M Trizact systems and machine sand the paint, it will make the buff out so much more faster and easier.

If you can't do that then our Nikken brand Finishing Papers are a good way to go for hand sanding.

Which ever system approach you use, after your last sanding step, and it will help you to finish sand in finest grade paper in the system you're using, (Abralon goes to #4000), start your first cutting step with our M105 Ultra Cut Compound with our W5500 Wool Cutting Pad. This system will remove the sanding marks and leave a high gloss finish perfect for a final polishing step and then on to wax.

M105

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20650&highlight=M10532

[raffaelli]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

If you have an air powered DA Sander, definitely invest in either the Mirka Abralon or 3M Trizact systems and machine sand the paint, it will make the buff out so much more faster and easier.

If you can't do that then our Nikken brand Finishing Papers are a good way to go for hand sanding.

Which ever system approach you use, after your last sanding step, and it will help you to finish sand in finest grade paper in the system you're using, (Abralon goes to #4000), start your first cutting step with our M105 Ultra Cut Compound with our W5500 Wool Cutting Pad. This system will remove the sanding marks and leave a high gloss finish perfect for a final polishing step and then on to wax.

M105
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/sho...ghlight=M10532

Thanks for the information. I do have a DA air sander, it is of the bottom end Home Depot variety. Good enough? I was thinking I needed to get an electric DA sander like this one. https://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/399401_lg.gif

I will order some the discs and products you mentioned. What do I do after the M105?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

Thanks for the information. I do have a DA air sander, it is of the bottom end Home Depot variety. Good enough? I was thinking I needed to get an electric DA sander like this one.

https://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/399401_lg.gif

The picture your link goes to is of a rotary buffer, this is a tool to remove your sanding marks not actually use to sand the paint down.

Ouch!

Using a rotary buffer with some kind of sanding paper on the backing plate would get you back to bare metal in just a few seconds, so don't think of the rotary buffer as a tool for sanding your paint even though they are used as Grinders.

You want the DA Sander to gently and safely sand down the paint to remove the orange peel and most important, leave behind a sanding marks pattern that will buff out easily with a rotary buffer.

From what you've written, you don't currently own a rotary buffer and it doesn't sound like you've ever used a rotary buffer to remove sanding marks.

Just so you know, this is a HUGE job to undertake and if you're just learning how then there's always a good chance you could make a mistake and that usually means sanding through the clear coat or buffing through the clear coat while trying to remove your sanding marks. It's also going to take you 1-5 days depending upon how much you tackle in a single day and kind of what kind of quality work you're doing. Getting high quality results means you can't RUSH the work, it needs to be done methodically and carefully through each step.

The first things you need to do is to watch our videos here,

5 Video segments on wet-sanding and using a rotary buffer

and the "How To Remove Paint Defects" video clips here

Autopia Detailing Articles & Videos


Then read this,

Learning to use the Rotary Buffer

Can a Rotary Buffer like a Makita or DeWalt be as Idiot-proof as a PC?


Switching from 3M to Meguiar's - Rotary Buffer Questions?


Read the article and watch the videos listed here as they will bring you up to speed as to the full extent as to what you're getting into. We'll post some more items you'll need to do the job.

If you're going to go through with this then you might want to read this thread as it may help you to choose the best rotary buffer for you.

Which Rotary Buffer Should I Purchase?


More later....

[iceburgh]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

You should have shot the paint at 70 degrees or above .... however like Mike stay away from the rotary buffer. If all else fails good old fashioned elbow grease but if the OP is that bad you will be there a while.

[raffaelli]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

Oops, I thought that unit was a DA.
Here is the air DA I have. What I need?
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100043505&N=10000003+90401

You right, never done this before. Other than clay bar and wax on my E46M3, I have not done any kind of finish work on cars. Like I mentioned, this is a race car and plan on having to replace panels this summer, so I don't need to go nuts with it, but would like a decent job. I am willing to learn, do it right and do it myself.
I started skinning the link you posted. I have seen some before. I will curl up with them tonight.
I really appreciate the information you have been providing me.

[raffaelli]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

You should have shot the paint at 70 degrees or above .... however like Mike stay away from the rotary buffer. If all else fails good old fashioned elbow grease but if the OP is that bad you will be there a while.

I intended to paint in about 75 degree weather. But, wasn't able to. Before I knew it, the temps dropped from 70 to 50. I was stuck and had to have a coat of paint on it prior to a test and tune day at the track.

[raffaelli]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

Here is a couple photos of the paint

http://www.putfile.com/pic/7053343

http://www.putfile.com/pic/7053342

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

Here is the air DA I have. What I need?
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100043505&N=10000003+90401

Yes, that will work. Both the Mirka Abralon System and the 3M Trizact System have their own type of backing plates and attachment systems, both will work very good.

Our personal opinion is to go with the Mirka system as the sanding discs are also a foam pad which gives you some cushion where as the 3M Trizact system is just a round plastic sheet. We think there is what's called an "Interface" pad available for the 3M system that is foam and gives the 3M paper some cushion so that's also an option.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

Here is a couple photos of the paint

http://www.putfile.com/pic/7053343

http://www.putfile.com/pic/7053342

Yeperdoo... there's a little orange peel in the paint...



Here's one of you photos that we uploaded into your MeguiarsOnline Gallery here,

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/member.php?uid=16080&protype=1

Best thing to do since this is new to you would be to tackle one panel a day, not try to sand and buff the entire car out in one process.

[raffaelli]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

Seems the 3M system is available in smaller quantities than the Mirka. I see the interface as well. I think I will order the 3M tonight. Any idea how many of each grit I should order?

[raffaelli]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

So my buddy resurfaced.

He came over and worked on the paint. 1200dry, 1500wet, then used two fluids - M105 to get rid of the sand marks then a 3M intensive polish to get rid of the remaining haze.

It is shiny, not swirl marks, no haze. Still has a bit of peel here and there But it looks great! (well, good enough - it really needs to be sanded to primer and done again)

At this point, I assume that I do not need the Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner. Do I need the Deep Crystal Polish or should I just goto a wax. This is a single stage paint which still has some defects. Which wax do I need? I would like to apply it tonight, then sticker the car.

[raffaelli]

Re: Need some sanding advice!

Last night I put a coat of canarba wax from the step series. I friend told me that would be a good way to protect the single stage, which is a bit soft, from getting scratched easily. I also have the Gold wax that I was going to but on tonight. Despite the defects in the paint, the car become very glossy with the canarba on it. Will more layers help conceal the defects?