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Thread: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax (ATTENTION EVERYONE)

          
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    Registered Member Chex's Avatar
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    Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax (ATTENTION EVERYONE)

    Well, I'll post this one in here since I couldn't put a post in the mis information forum regarding this subject, so when I read it, I sent an email to 3M to see what would they tell me about this.

    However, I once asked that long time ago to the Automagic guys and this was their answer (writen by Mr Mike Mc Fall and with all the original stuff

    "We could write books on this. Matter of fact we do. To keep it as simple as possible, waxes sit on top of an auto's paint. They contain organic products like carnauba or bees wax for durability. They may last anywhere from a few days for quick detail products to several months for carnauba waxes. No matter how good they are waxes eventually wear off. Waxes are more appropriate for older vehicles because they can fill in imperfections and scratches for a better appearance.

    Sealants use polymer technology to literally bond with the paint. They do wear but very slowly. After sealants are applied you can actually polish your paint without removing the sealant. They are more suitable for use on newer vehicles. Because they "shrink" onto the paint they can actually make scratches or imperfections more visible. Before application use a mild polish to make your paint as smooth as possible."

    When I get the answer from 3M, I'll post it as well.
    " Sometimes logic is your friend (Mike-In-Orange)"

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    Administrator Michael Stoops's Avatar
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    Re: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax (ATTENTION EVERYONE)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post
    After sealants are applied you can actually polish your paint without removing the sealant.
    I find this a bit difficult to believe, especially if the polish has any sort of abrasiveness to it. Sure, you can put #7, a pure polish, on top of anything without removing what was laid down before, but I don't see a sealant surviving a pass of M83 on a W8006 pad at speed 5. I guess I just don't like sweeping generalizations.
    Michael Stoops
    Internet Technical Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.
    (800) 854-8073 xt 3875
    mstoops@meguiars.com

    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

    Please post technical questions directly to the forum rather than emailing or PM-ing me. You
    will get a faster response on the forum, and your question could help someone else, too!


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    Registered Member Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax (ATTENTION EVERYONE)

    Just to note... most of these discussions start to drill down to what is meant by a certain word, for example in the above information it was said that a polymer "bonds" to the paint. Well the ingredient Carnauba wax will bond to paint also, so the question becomes how is the word "bond" being defined as it's being used by each writer.

    If bond means "stick to" then beeswax and Carnauba wax even a crayon when rubbed against paint will leave a waxy substance behind that will stick to, or bond to the paint.

    Now if they mean something more complicated like "Hydrogen Bonding" when they use the word bond, then that's not comparing apples to apples, but this information has to be explained in detail at the get go so that everyone's on the same page.

    While I can get just as AR over these topics as the most AR personalities in the Cyber-World, at the end of the day a person is either going to go out into their garage an apply the wax or not...


    People basically want one of two things and usually both when they wax their car no matter what or how you define the word wax, i.e.

    • Wax
    • Paint Protectant
    • Synthetic Sealant
    • Polish
    • Glaze
    • etc.


    People want their car to look good and be protected, if we drill down further people want their car to look as good as it can and be as protected as best as it can, thus the search for the Holy Grail of products in the "Paint Protection" category and thus all the competition amongst companies vying for your car wax dollars.

    That said, keep in mind that no matter how great a paint protection product is at resisting attack from an outside force, (for example a bird dropping that lands on your car's paint), now follow me on this...

    If the attacking substance is strong enough to eat into, dissolve or etch a catalyzed clear coat finish, applied by either a robot or a professional painter in a controlled environment and measuring in the mils, then it's likely going to obliterate the micron thin layer of protection you applied by pouring it out of a bottle or scooping it out of a can or spraying it with an aerosol can, or a trigger spray bottle onto your car out in your garage.

    Does that make sense?


    Enough for now, we'll enter a holding pattern...
    Mike Phillips
    Office: 800-869-3011 x206
    Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
    "Find something you like and use it often"

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    Registered Member Chex's Avatar
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    Re: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax (ATTENTION EVERYONE)

    Finally I got The Answer From 3M like after 2 weeks or waiting, and I think it's a little better than the first one I got.

    it says:

    The questions you have about waxes and synthetic finishes are good ones.
    There are advantages/disadvantages to both. Carnauba wax is the most
    durable of the waxes and tends to give you really good gloss. The
    disadvantage of the Carnauba wax can be streaking or difficulty in handling
    (application and/or removal). All of these characteristics vary depending
    on the manufacture and formula of the specific product. Synthetic wax type
    products tend to have better handling characteristics built into them.
    These formulations can be engineered to provide several desired
    characteristics such as durability and handling. This is done by using a
    variety of different raw material options that are available. There are a
    wide variety of these products that perform very differently depending upon
    their specific formulation. I hope this answers the questions you have
    regarding the wax and synthetic wax products.

    Answer written By Todd M Mathes from 3M

    I guess this answer is more accurate and I think less general than the first one. what do you think?
    " Sometimes logic is your friend (Mike-In-Orange)"

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    Administrator Michael Stoops's Avatar
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    Re: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax (ATTENTION EVERYONE)

    As has been noted elsewhere even a true carnauba wax isn't simply 100% carnauba - there are other ingredients in the mix that allow for proper handling of the wax itself. But at the end of the day, you still have the potential for whatever limitations carnauba posseses (difficult removal, streaking, etc) along with the good (longevity, shine, etc). With synthetics you can pick and choose from a variety of man made chemicals to provide all the good stuff you want to factor in, and keep the potential for problems at bay. Virtually all man made materials strive to improve on what Mother Nature offers. Sometimes it works, sometimes it works with caveats. That is to say, some folks insist that a top line carnauba wax offers a deeper, richer gloss than synthetics do, claiming that synths often look too "plastic-y" in comparison. Synthetics do, as a rule, last longer than carnauba waxes, so perhaps science has one-upped Mother Nature in that regard. So the inevitable trade off exists.
    Michael Stoops
    Internet Technical Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.
    (800) 854-8073 xt 3875
    mstoops@meguiars.com

    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

    Please post technical questions directly to the forum rather than emailing or PM-ing me. You
    will get a faster response on the forum, and your question could help someone else, too!


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    Registered Member Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Re: Synthetic Polymer/Sealant vs. Wax (ATTENTION EVERYONE)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post

    I guess this answer is more accurate and I think less general than the first one. what do you think?

    Both answers are kind of general, fluff answers and that's about all you can expect from a manufacture. See what we wrote here...

    General answer

    Mike Phillips
    Office: 800-869-3011 x206
    Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
    "Find something you like and use it often"

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