If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any Luck

[Graeme]

Well I thought I would wash, polish and wax the car today.

I should have decided to do anything else BUT wash the car....

Everything started out ok, I washed the car using Gold Class Wash, thoroughly rinsed it off with the hose, then I decided to sit and have a quick drink and a smoke before I began drying it off with a chamois.

That was a mistake, the weather here is quite hot 37c so needless to say it didn't take long before the car decided to dry itself.
I thought at the time damn this is going to be easy, so I proceeded to dry it off properly with the chamois rinsing it as I went.

Was I wrong....

Ok I got that all done and noticed some water marks here and there but didn't worry too much as I went over them again with the damp chamois, they were still there.

It gets worse....

Ok I thought I would just alter my schedule and use some DC Paint Cleaner. Well after just about rubbing a hole through the panel it had absolutely no affect on the water marks.

I then decided to rewash the car again, this time in smaller sections rinsing thoroughly and drying as I went. This didn't work, I still have those damn water marks on several panels including the roof and hood.
Well after this I was pretty peeved to say the least. The wife new better and disappeared into the house. I decided to just polish and wax the car anyway as I didn't have the time to try to get the marks out. They are still very visible.

Ok you still reading?

I don't understand why this happened, the car was washed with GC, polished with DC, 1 coat of GC Wax and 2 coats of NXT Wax about 2 weeks ago.
Why is it water will leave marks that are EXTREMELY hard to remove? Even though there are 3 coats of wax on the car.
Our water here is not what you might call hard water.

I was under the impression wax was applied to protect the paintwork. Have I missed something here? Surely wax should stop WATER from leaving marks?
Maybe stop is not the right word, Wax should make removing marks very easy.

I really don't want to go over the whole car with ScrathX just to get rid of these water marks.

So here I am 9 1/2 hours later hoping someone here can explain why this has happened.

Oh and thanks for taking the time to read it all


Graeme

[jfelbab]

Re: If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any Luck

Water spots are dried mineral deposits and they can dry very hard. Sometimes you can remove/dissolve them with vinegar if there are just a few and they are fresh. Vinegar will usually remove any sealant or wax too so rewax the area afterwords.

They are also removed by using clay and an abrasive polish If you leave them too long and the water is acidic (like from acid rain) this can etch the paint making removal very difficult.

I'd try soaking a paper towel in vinegar and laying it on the spot for about five minutes. Don't do this in the sun or on a hot paint surface. Keep the towel moistened and don't rub with the paper towel. See if that dissolves the water spots.

If that didn't work try using some clay and follow with an abrasive polish like ScratchX.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any Luck

Well 37 degrees Celsius is 98 degrees Fahrenheit. That's pretty warm and will do just what you experienced, make drying the water off the car before it dries on it's own difficult.

Anything strong enough to etch paint, is strong enough etch through wax, so yes wax does protect paint, but it has it limits. If these marks are actually etchings in the paint, then some type of chemical reaction took place between the water and the heat to cause this.

If applying ScratchX doesn't remove the water marks, and you're sure they're water etchings and not deposits on the paint, then the only way to remove them is to remove the paint around them.



Here's a little article we wrote on this topic...



How To Remove Water Spots off Automotive Paints


Swirls, scratches and water spots are the three most common paint defects car enthusiasts struggle with when it comes to removing them and preventing them from coming back. In this how-to article we'll take a look at water spots, where they come from, how to remove them and also how to prevent them.

There are two basic kinds of water spots or water marks found on automotive paints.

• Type I Water Spots - Above Surface Mineral Deposits
• Type II Water Spots - Below Surface Water Spot Etchings

Type I Water Spots
Type I Water Spots are what Meguiar's refers to as Above Surface Bonded Contaminants. A Type I water spot is some type of deposit, often times a mineral deposit that was suspended in the water source to begin with, then after the water evaporated off the finish the mineral is left behind where it bonds to the finish usually in a circular or pattern or shape.


Type I Water Spots - Mineral deposits sitting on top of the paint







How to Remove Type I Water Spots
If you discover Type I Water Spots on your car's finish, it will often times require the use of both detailing clay and a paint cleaner to completely remove all trace of the mark left behind.

• Step by step process for removing Type I Water Spots
  
  Step 1 - Wash & Dry the Car
  First wash the car thoroughly using a quality car wash to remove any loose contaminants and to also remove any portion of the mineral deposit that has not yet bonded to the paint. After washing the car, dry the car to remove any standing water and to prevent further accumulation of Type I Water Spots.
  
  Step 2 - Clay the Paint
  Use Meguiar's Smooth Surface? Clay Kit to clay all affected paint panels. Meguiar's Detailing clay is a special clay that you knead into a wafer or patty, somewhat like a pancake, and then rub over the finish using Meguiar's Quik Detailer as a lubricant between the clay and the paint. As you're rubbing the clay over the finish, the specialized abrasives will loosen and remove any deposits sitting on top of the paint and trap them into the clay and our clay will do this without instilling scratches into the paint.
  
  Because as you're claying, you're removing these mineral deposits and trapping them into the clay itself, you'll want to take your clay patty and fold it into itself and then re-knead it to expose a fresh side of clay. Also keep a microfiber polishing cloth handy and wipe down the clayed area as you work to remove any excess Quick Detailer from the paint so that you won't have to re-wash the car.
  
  Repeat the above process until you've clayed all of the horizontal panels on your car and possibly even the vertical panels should you discover Type I Water Spots on the sides of your car's paint.
  
  Step 3 - Clean the Paint with a Paint Cleaner
  After claying the finish, re-inspect the affected areas, the paint should look smooth and clean as well as feel smooth like a piece of new glass. If you see any trace outlines in the paint where the water deposits were previously, then you'll now need to use a paint cleaner like ScratchX to remove these imperfections out of the paint.
  
  Any water spots or marks left in the paint after claying the paint are actually etchings in the paint and must be removed using a paint cleaner. Water Mark Etchings are what Meguiar's calls, Below Surface Defects, that is these water marks are where the mineral deposits, (left after the water evaporated off the finish), actually etched into, or ate into the paint. This is why the detailing clay did not completely remove these marks, it's because these marks are below the surface and detailing clay only removes contaminants sitting on top of the surface.
  
  ScratchX is a paint cleaner that uses Meguiar's Microscopic Diminishing Abrasive Technology to safely remove swirls, scratches and other below surface imperfections out of the paint. Simply apply ScratchX using a clean, soft foam applicator pad and then work the product against the finish with firm pressure. Work a small area or directly on the affected area for 2-3 minutes and then immediately remove any leftover product from the paint and inspect. If the mark is no longer visible, apply a coat of wax to protect the paint. If the mark is still visible, then repeat paint cleaning step using ScratchX. Some swirls, scratches and water spot etchings will require multiple applications to remove depending on how hard the paint is and how deep the defects are.

Type II Water Spots - Etchings below the surface

Type II Water Spots are what Meguiar's refers to as Below Surface Defects. A Type II Water Spot is actually an etching in the surface where whatever was in the water was strong enough in its chemical composition to actually eat or dissolve the paint and thus etch into the paint.


Type II Water Spots - Etchings below the surface




Close-up of same photo above





If you discover Type II Water Spots in your car's finish, you can use a paint cleaner by hand such as ScratchX and the procedure outlined above in Step 3 for removing below surface etchings left by Type I Water Spots, or you can use a machine applied product such as a Meguiar's paint cleaner, or cleaner/polish to remove the water spot etchings using Meguiar's G100 Dual Action Polisher.

Meguiar's Dual Action Polisher will safely clean your car's finish removing a small amount of paint in an effort to level, or smooth-out the paint. The goal is to remove just enough paint to level the upper most portions of the surface with the lowest depths of the defect you're trying to remove. In some cases you may want to check with a seasoned professional for their advice before attempting to remove below surface defects like Type II Water Spots.


Important Note: Anytime you use detailing clay and/or a paint cleaner on your car's finish, you need to reapply a coat of wax to the paint as detailing clay and paint cleaners will remove any previously applied wax off the paint.



How to prevent water spots from coming back
There are two important things you can do to help prevent water spots from coming back, one is to remove water from the finish before it can dry and potentially leave a water spot. Meguiar's offers a number of different tools to help you do this including, our waffle weave Water Magnet Drying Towel, our Microfiber Super Suede Drying Towel, and our Super Thick Natural Chamois which comes in 4 different sizes.

Besides keeping water off your car, the next best thing you can do is to keep maintain a good coat of wax on all the painted surfaces, to help with this Meguiar's offers a number of different waxes to suit everyone's preferences including, NXT Generation? Tech Wax, Gold Class? Liquid Wax and Deep Crystal System Carnauba Wax.

[Graeme]

Re: If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any Luck

Type II Water Spots - Etchings below the surface

Type II Water Spots are what Meguiar's refers to as Below Surface Defects. A Type II Water Spot is actually an etching in the surface where whatever was in the water was strong enough in its chemical composition to actually eat or dissolve the paint and thus etch into the paint.


Type II Water Spots - Etchings below the surface




Close-up of same photo above

Thats exactly what I have
I really didn't want to do the whole car by hand with Scratchx

Hey Mike, the way I'm going I will be able to post my own "How To" section

Thanks for replying

Graeme

[MotorcycleDetailing]

Re: If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any Luck

Hey graeme, with scratch X you don't have to do the whole car....just the areas that the marks are in and a little of the surrounding area. I got myself a ryobi palm sander for $39 which has adjustable speed which I use on motorcycles and am in the process of waiting for a Polar sander/polisher which is on order from repco for $49 which also has the adjustable speed dial. If you want to make the Polar random orbital instead of rotarty you can get a head that fits onto it from any hardware shop.

Mike, we get around 30 to 42 and in some places up to 45 here in australia and most of us have fun washing the car even in the shade during summer as you can only wash a panel at a time before washing the soap off to stop it drying and that doesn't mention drying by chamois cause its dry by the time you get back to it.

Trev

[Lydia]

Re: If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any Luck

We have the same problem here in FL. Good luck with the water spots, Graeme.

PS. Your car looked very nice in the thread you posted.

PPS. I'll try to get you the total amount tomorrow for the order. Sorry it took so long; I've been pretty busy lately still.

[Graeme]

Re: If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any Luck

We have the same problem here in FL. Good luck with the water spots, Graeme.

PS. Your car looked very nice in the thread you posted.

PPS. I'll try to get you the total amount tomorrow for the order. Sorry it took so long; I've been pretty busy lately still.

Hi Lydia, no probs when you get a chance

Hey graeme, with scratch X you don't have to do the whole car....just the areas that the marks are in and a little of the surrounding area. I got myself a ryobi palm sander for $39 which has adjustable speed which I use on motorcycles and am in the process of waiting for a Polar sander/polisher which is on order from repco for $49 which also has the adjustable speed dial. If you want to make the Polar random orbital instead of rotarty you can get a head that fits onto it from any hardware shop.
Trev

Hey Trev can you let me know how the Polar goes? I have been trying to find something that is suitable for my car and one that will take either megs pads or the Edge Pad System.

Thanks

Graeme