Forum Rules?

[Overtaker]

Members and Moderators:

Actions are happening on this forum that shouldn't be. I have methodically reviewed the Forum Rules which govern this forum. Due to my patriotic spirit that compels me to defend the rules of this forum, I have chosen to voice my concerns. Contained within this post are actions that conflict with the rules.


Threads not being reopened and being closed for illegitimate reasons:
NEW Product Announcement...

You stated it correctly Lucas, what separates the men from the boys are how things are handled, re-read Joshua's posts and take a look at how he handled himself.

I have to go now, I have a big class today and I certainly don't have time to babysit a few problem people. Until Monday, because of the actions of a few members on this forum, I'm going to close this thread.

Nearly a month later and it is still closed.

New Logo for Meguiar's Online!

Stan,

We appreciate your passion and fondness of voicing your opinion, but at the same time it's against our forum rules to bash companies and this includes us. You've voiced your opinion and you've gotten your point across...


We're currently setting up for tonight's class and won't have any time to monitor this thread until tomorrow, so while it's nice to be important, it's also important to be nice.

We're going to close this thread until tomorrow as we step out into the garage and do what we do best and that's make everything clean and shiny!

Why were the threads closed in the first place?
"NEW Product Announcement...": The product was delayed, therefore people were dissappointed. People voice their dissappointment of the delay, thread is closed.
"New Logo for Meguiar's Online!" New logo is unveiled. In 55 posts, hardly anyone likes the new logo. The original logo is vastly superior to this block logo. Change isn't always good. You decide for yourself.
or

The bottom line is that threads are being closed when their contents come in the slightest conflict with Meguiar's. This does not constitute bashing in any way. It shouldn't be happening.

The banning of Joshua312:
After reviewing his posts that were quoted for his banning, this is the only post that might possibly contain rule breaking.

Well I've had time to think about this during the day and now coming back to the thread to see this post...It seems like Meguiars is showing *their* true colors. I've heard plenty of complaints of Meguiars Customer Service, I've dealt with their customer service on the phone telling me I had to wait for my order another 2 weeks failing to contact me and telling me this..guess they were just going to wait until I called..and now the comments made by admins here who are supposedly here to "help" us.

I'm sorry but you guys brought this on yourselves and I think people will add this to their reasons why maybe not to deal with Meg's directly but just buy from other distributors. I don't need to be nice to buy Meg. products and I'm not going to kiss butt like other users here.

I'm sorry but if these end up being 4" pads like others said, there's nothing ground breaking about that and I'll continue to use other vendors after this.

Any rules that would have been broken in that post would have been the following:
1. No personal attacks toward members will be tolerated. His comments named no users, nor did they mention of users' private lives, thus not personal.
2. No arguing with Moderators or Administrators. There was no argument between him and the mods.
3. You are welcome to disagree but you must be polite. What we have here is a dissappointed customer. Although his comments may not be totally polite, they were certainly not aggressively uncivil.
4. No bashing any company or their products.
Even if the above rules were broken, they carry a penalty of "Polite warning via email or PM to remind you of the rules." There is certainly no mention of banning in that punishment.
The explanation of his banning:

See ya... we just don't need this kind of attitude polluting our forum.

The above statement mentions no rules, which are the cornerstone of the forum.

The Forum Rules are getting the cold-shoulder here are Meguiar's Online. Threads are being improperly closed. People are being banned for awry reasons. It is my belief that the rules should be reinstated for the benefit of the community. It is my intention for this thread to reawaken the rules and to prevent the forum from continuing in a downward spiral to lawlessness. What is the point of having the rules if they are not used?

Long live ,
Overtaker

[GearHead_1]

Re: Forum Rules?

I'm sorry if this post comes across as unnecessarily harsh but I believe it is reality. It never ceases to amaze me that people come to a manufacturer's web site and complain about their rights on said site. We get kind of caught up in our daily freedoms and for whatever reason assume these rights carry over to a privately owned web site. There's no freedom of speech guaranteed here. This isn't a free autonomous society. It's Meguiar's site, period. We have no rights, we're permitted to use the site assuming we don't annoy the powers that be. It's a privilege they grant us for as long as they choose to do so. If you tangle with a moderator or an administrator you just as well say good bye end of story. If the owner of this or any other site doesn't like what is being said, they fix it. It's that simple and if we don't like it we're free to leave.

I've watched and read Mike Phillips for years. He's an easy going guy and pretty tough to push too far. He obviously felt like what ever was happening was an exception to the rules. If he decided it was to much well then he's the boss.

I also thought the new logo looked fine.

[GearHead_1]

Re: Forum Rules?

Oh yeah, one last thing. If you have a disagreement or a beef with a moderator don't bring it out in a public thread send the other party a PM.

[sneek]

Re: Forum Rules?

:P i dont even get why theres such a big fuss about it, the new logo doesn't affect the content in anyway does it?

[gb387]

Re: Forum Rules?

I'm sorry if this post comes across as unnecessarily harsh but I believe it is reality. It never ceases to amaze me that people come to a manufacturer's web site and complain about their rights on said site. We get kind of caught up in our daily freedoms and for whatever reason assume these rights carry over to a privately owned web site. There's no freedom of speech guaranteed here. This isn't a free autonomous society. It's Meguiar's site, period. We have no rights, we're permitted to use the site assuming we don't annoy the powers that be. It's a privilege they grant us for as long as they choose to do so. If you tangle with a moderator or an administrator you just as well say good bye end of story. If the owner of this or any other site doesn't like what is being said, they fix it. It's that simple and if we don't like it we're free to leave.

I've watched and read Mike Phillips for years. He's an easy going guy and pretty tough to push too far. He obviously felt like what ever was happening was an exception to the rules. If he decided it was to much well then he's the boss.

I also thought the new logo looked fine.

I would agree with GearHead on most points.... IMO this site is ran very well, there are very few forums you can go to and find meaningful information with discussion and not arguments. Seems other sites every other post is a - this is better than that, its a constant war back and forth and no fun to read or participate in. The moderators seem to participate in this junk.

I can understand where they (Meguiars) are coming from... It works out the same when you are on private property(privately owned business) and that is what MOL is. I can think of many occasions where we(where I work) have removed people from the property for various reasons.... it may not have quite fit in the 'rules' that we have posted and enforce but we didn't want those actions around and its what makes our business and the environment what it is and 'family friendly'.

P.S. Many(all 9 he made) of Joshua312 posts in that thread were IMO a little 'harsh', I was surprised he made it that long.

[Superior Shine]

Re: Forum Rules?

Man you have a lot of time on your hands!!!

I believe your reading too much into this. There isn't a conspiracy or anything going on.

Mr. Phillips, the moderator of this fine form, is a personal friend of mine. I know for sure he is a very busy guy. He has allot on his plate and has to balance everything out for the best.

If anything was left closed, I am sure it wasn’t done intentionally. He just never got around to it.

That is my guess anyway. He will chime in here sooner or later.

[Overtaker]

Re: Forum Rules?

Looking back, I know I should have PMed and for that I am sorry. I can't lock or delete the thread myself, but I tried and also sent Mr. Phillips an email.

[sneek]

Re: Forum Rules?

Man you have a lot of time on your hands!!!

I believe your reading too much into this. There isn't a conspiracy or anything going on.

Mr. Phillips, the moderator of this fine form, is a personal friend of mine. I know for sure he is a very busy guy. He has allot on his plate and has to balance everything out for the best.

If anything was left closed, I am sure it wasn’t done intentionally. He just never got around to it.

That is my guess anyway. He will chime in here sooner or later.

hehehe like the Honda civic engine makeover ...its been a long time but mike is running the show right now(havent see Tom M. for post for a while. I think other people at meguairs are starting to appear more and more but they aren't mods.

[Overtaker]

Re: Forum Rules?

I'm sorry if this post comes across as unnecessarily harsh but I believe it is reality. It never ceases to amaze me that people come to a manufacturer's web site and complain about their rights on said site. We get kind of caught up in our daily freedoms and for whatever reason assume these rights carry over to a privately owned web site. There's no freedom of speech guaranteed here. This isn't a free autonomous society. It's Meguiar's site, period. We have no rights, we're permitted to use the site assuming we don't annoy the powers that be. It's a privilege they grant us for as long as they choose to do so. If you tangle with a moderator or an administrator you just as well say good bye end of story. If the owner of this or any other site doesn't like what is being said, they fix it. It's that simple and if we don't like it we're free to leave.

I've watched and read Mike Phillips for years. He's an easy going guy and pretty tough to push too far. He obviously felt like what ever was happening was an exception to the rules. If he decided it was to much well then he's the boss.

I also thought the new logo looked fine.

I'm not promoting freedom of speech on MOL. I realize Meguiar's is a privately held company; however, Meguiar's has set the rules and what is contained in the rules governs the forum.

:P i dont even get why theres such a big fuss about it, the new logo doesn't affect the content in anyway does it?

The intention of this thread was not to debate the new logo, but why fix it if it isn't broke? Drastically more people liked the older one. No, it doesn't affect the content of the site.

Man you have a lot of time on your hands!!!

I believe your reading too much into this. There isn't a conspiracy or anything going on.

Mr. Phillips, the moderator of this fine form, is a personal friend of mine. I know for sure he is a very busy guy. He has allot on his plate and has to balance everything out for the best.

If anything was left closed, I am sure it wasn’t done intentionally. He just never got around to it.

That is my guess anyway. He will chime in here sooner or later.

Yes, I did have too much time on my hands at the moment. From what I read about the club meets at Meguiar's, I conclude that he is an excellent instructor and everything. I have nothing personal against Mr. Phillips. His skills amaze me EVERY time (especially the civic and that Mercedes convertible!)

My apologies to Mr. Phillips

[Superior Shine]

Re: Forum Rules?

I don't think you need to apologize. You had a question and asked it very well. Lets see what Mike says.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Forum Rules?

Well...

I was trying to take the day off... I had surgery today, nothing major but something that had to be done, and usually, on Thursdays when I'm teaching classes back to back on Saturdays I try to take this day off so I can catch up on life and even work on some cars, otherwise I tend to be a work-aholic.

That's not a good thing for the family.

Let me wrap up my current project and then I'll deal with this thread.

Thanks for your patience.

[imacarnut]

Re: Forum Rules?

I was trying to take the day off... I had surgery today, nothing major but something that had to be done

hope everything is okay, and take care of yourself buddy!

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Forum Rules?

Let me do my best to address all of your point as best as I can...

First, I would like to make it very clear that I'm not a very good Moderator, also... I've never claimed to be a good Moderator. I don't even like moderating as the role of a Moderator is akin to a Police Man. I love police men and women, heck my Dad was a State Police for 27 years and there was a time I almost pusued that vocation.

My strengths, in all meekness, are specific to working on cars and then helping others to work on cars using a keyboard and a camera. I like to polish paint and I love to show other people how to do the same and when they do it, show them how to get the best results the first time from their time, money and efforts. This is my passion and I'm fortunate that I've found a way to pursue my passion and also get paid for it. Yes... I'm fortunate.

The point is this... I'm not the best moderator and to be honest I don't really like playing the role of Moderator. The problem is that we don't currently have a good Moderator. Tim Lingor aka 2hotford is a GREAT moderator, but alas at this time he's not a part of our team. If he were a part of our team, all of these issues that Overtaker has brought up would have for certain been dealt with in a different and I dare say, a better manner.

So to be upfront at the very beginning of this reply, if mistakes have been made, then I'm willing to own up to them.


Now one to the issues Overtaker has brought up...

Why were the threads closed in the first place?

• "NEW Product Announcement...": The product was delayed, therefore people were disappointed. People voice their disappointment of the delay, thread is closed.
  
• "New Logo for Meguiar's Online!" New logo is unveiled. In 55 posts, hardly anyone likes the new logo. The original logo is vastly superior to this block logo.

The bottom line is that threads are being closed when their contents come in the slightest conflict with Meguiar's. This does not constitute bashing in any way. It shouldn't be happening.

In both of these instances, in my judgment, nothing positive, helpful or beneficial was resulting by allowing these two threads to remain open. They were closed when I was going to be away from the computer for extended periods of time to work with enthusiasts, and then after the classes were over, it just didn't seem that anything good was going to come by re-opening them, so... I left them closed.

Can anyone make the case that to open these two threads would lead to anything good? Or would it merely lead to more complaints and yes, even bashing. Note Forum Rule #4

4. No bashing any company or their products. No bashing other people. If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all.

Note: No bashing any company also means no bashing Meguiar's.

• Were mistakes made in the pre-launch of a new product? Yes.
• Were our forum members unhappy about the new logo? Yes.

• Is there anything I can do about it? No.
• Was allowing the threads to continue in the pattern they were trending producing anything positive, helpful or of any value? No.

If Overtaker, or anyone can make the case that re-opening either of the above threads will lead to anything positive, helpful or beneficial please do so here in this thread. In an effort to show that we want to be fair, I will open both of these threads after posting this reply. If they get out of hand or just go south then I'll again make the judgment call to close them.

The banning of Joshua312:
After reviewing his posts that were quoted for his banning, this is the only post that might possibly contain rule breaking. Any rules that would have been broken in that post would have been the following:

1. No personal attacks toward members will be tolerated.
His comments named no users, nor did they mention of users' private lives, thus not personal.

2. No arguing with Moderators or Administrators.
There was no argument between him and the mods.

3. You are welcome to disagree but you must be polite.
What we have here is a disappointed customer. Although his comments may not be totally polite, they were certainly not aggressively uncivil.

4. No bashing any company or their products.

Even if the above rules were broken, they carry a penalty of "Polite warning via email or PM to remind you of the rules." There is certainly no mention of banning in that punishment.

Two points,

1. As mentioned above at the beginning of this thread, I'm not a good Moderator, I don't like Moderating, and I admit banning Joshua312 may have been the wrong decision.
   
2. Joshua312 made his point a number of times and then continued on with this tirade. He made his point. Why he chose to continue with his tirade was difficult to understand and from all appearances, it didn't look like he was going to let up any time soon. Running this forum and teaching classes is my top priority and takes a lot of time, anything that takes my focus off these two priorities tends to get nipped in the bud rather quickly. It's not what I want to do, it's what the person forces me to do.

The Forum Rules are getting the cold-shoulder here are Meguiar's Online. Threads are being improperly closed. People are being banned for awry reasons. It is my belief that the rules should be reinstated for the benefit of the community. It is my intention for this thread to reawaken the rules and to prevent the forum from continuing in a downward spiral to lawlessness. What is the point of having the rules if they are not used?

You make it sound as though the forum is out of control and that's simply not true. For a company forum, we're a busy forum and the majority of the time the forum runs like a sewing machine, never missing a stroke.

Long live ,
Overtaker

Yes, may you live long and prosper and thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns and I hope that I've addressed them at least at some level to your satisfaction.

Sincerely,

Mike Phillips

[hammer55]

Re: Forum Rules?

I think your right, not that it makes a difference what I think, people need to realize that these sites are for sharing good and learning not to gripe, and it is a privilege, not a right. If you have a bit#% then call Maguires personally or talk to mike about it, I think this site and all sites are to share the do's and don'ts of detailing cars and maybe to share good fortune, like its been said before, if you don't have anything good to say then don't say anything, positive affirmation is the best way to go, jmho

[BlueTooth]

Re: Forum Rules?

I have one question since you dont like moderating why no enlist some new moderators? , that way you wont have to do all the main moderating yourself, but i would make these moderators people you can trust and know what they are doing and know how to handle situations.