why won't this work?

[fordraceing_man]

ok just curious whats wrong with these, why will these not work for deatiling a car for personal use that you won't use very much.


www.NoCommercialLinks.com

why won't these work? just curiuos why someone like me that would use it 2 times a year if that on a car should spend over 100 bucks on this.

thanks

[the other pc]

Re: why won't this work?

Whether it works at all depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

If it doesn't do what you need it doesn't matter how often you want to use it or if it's "just for personal use."

Here's a thread on the subject:
Rotary vs. PC vs. Regular Orbital Buffer


PC.

[Murr1525]

Re: why won't this work?

There isnt enough torque to remove defects. They can spread a wax more or less ok.

[fordraceing_man]

Re: why won't this work?

ok heres what the local shops here have

vectors buffer its 79.00
10" road expidition orbital its 29.99
10" nikota orbial its 37.48

now i want something for removing scratchs and stuff like that, i can wax it by hand or the machine thats not a big deal but im just looking at something for removing the swirls.

[fordraceing_man]

Re: why won't this work?

what about the vectors buffer?
heres the link to it www.nocommercialLinks.con

[Murr1525]

Re: why won't this work?

Well, hopefully someone can chime in later in the evening, but to me that Vector looks like a rotary buffer that they are trying to make sound safe for everyone to use. You can ruin your paint real fast with a rotary buffer if you have no experience with one.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: why won't this work?

Here are the forum rules, no commercial links.

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[Mike Phillips]

Re: why won't this work?

now i want something for removing scratchs and stuff like that, i can wax it by hand or the machine thats not a big deal but im just looking at something for removing the swirls.

The reason the dual action polisher has become so popular is because it works so well and is so easy to use. Trying to find a different tool for less money is a path many people try to go down and in the end they either work by hand or purchase the dual action polisher.

[fordraceing_man]

Re: why won't this work?

sorry wasn't trying to post a link to a site commercial site just wanted to show the polisher,
so how does that vectors look though compared to a g100 or a PC? im like a 2 hour drive to any lowes and i hate ordering stuff online

[Mike Phillips]

Re: why won't this work?

sorry wasn't trying to post a link to a site commercial site just wanted to show the polisher,
so how does that vectors look though compared to a G100 or a PC? I'm like a 2 hour drive to any Lowe's and i hate ordering stuff online

Rotary buffers are a lot of work and require years of experience from buffing out hundreds of cars before you get to where you can handle one and get great results. Even when you can use one correctly, most of the time they leave holograms in the paint and the best way to remove these is with the dual action polisher, i.e. Meguiar's G100/The Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher.

Traditional Orbital Buffers like the one you included a link to will not remove swirls and scratches out of clear coats, or at least not effectively.

We've seen your question hundreds of times and the answers your getting here are the same answers that are posted for all the other times these questions are asked.

If you want to remove swirls with a fool-proof tool, then you want a G100/PC

If you want to make your car's paint shiny, but live with the swirls and scratches, then get a traditional orbital buffer, they work good for spreading out a coat of wax.

[fordraceing_man]

Re: why won't this work?

now the portar cable 7336, is that the same as the G100 is that dummy proof?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: why won't this work?

now the portar cable 7336, is that the same as the G100 is that dummy proof?

Yes and yes.

[fordraceing_man]

Re: why won't this work?

so what would i buy then with it?
the pc 7336 can i put wax on with this? put it on and still take it off by a cloth right?

what else, all i have is the DC step one and two and gold class wax.

[MaximusZTS]

Re: why won't this work?

you will need a backing plate

you will need some polishing pads for your DC1 and DC2

Then you will need a finishing pad for your wax

You can remove your wax by hand, no problem. If you want to do that step with the G100 then you can get some bonnets

and strech them over a cutting pad

[Mike Phillips]

Re: why won't this work?

Here's a little article we wrote on the process, start in on the M80 Step.

##############


Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line

Tips & Techniques for using the G-100a to remove swirls and other paint defects.

Products Used
Smooth Surface™ Clay Kit
G-100a
1 each W-7006 SOFTBUFF™ Cutting Pad (For use with the the Gold Class Bonnets)
2 each W-8006 Soft Buff® Foam Polishing Pads (For use applying cleaner/polishes)
1 each W-9006 SOFTBUFF™ Finishing Pad (For use applying NXT Tech Wax)
#83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish
#80 Speed Glaze
Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax
Supreme Shine Microfiber
X4003 Gold Class Clear Coat Safe Microfiber Bonnets 2-Pack



First wash the car thoroughly. Pay special attention to loosening and removing any dirt particles from cracks and crevices to prevent these dirt particles from being introduced onto the surface during the polishing process. After washing and drying, inspect the surface both visually for below surface defects and with the palm of your clean hand for above surface defects.

If you feel any tiny little bumps still attached to the finish after washing, proceed to clay the paint to safely remove these contaminants. After claying each panel, wipe the panel down with a quick detailer to remove any residue.

Using Painters Tape, tape-off any plastic trim or components that you don't not want to get product onto and also tape-off any edges, high points or areas with known thin paint.



Your car may not look like the below car, but the taped-off areas should...




Let's begin!




Using M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish to Remove Serious Below Surface Defects such as deep swirls, scratches and etchings in the paint

This step would be for car finishes that have been neglected and/or abused. In most cases you would want to first do a Test Spot using M80 Speed Glaze and then check your results. If M80 Speed Glazes wasn't aggressive enough then you would try something more aggressive and this would be Meguiar's M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish.


Applying #83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish with the G-100

• Speed Setting - 5.0
• Arm Speed - Slow Arm Speed
• Pressure - 15 to 20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher
• Work Area - Work a small area at a time, about 1 foot square
• Overlapping motions - Overlap each pass by 50%, move the polisher using different patterns
• Time - Work the product until the diminishing abrasives have broken down, but you haven't gone completely to a dry buff.
• Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working

The below diagram represents swirls and scratches evenly distributed throughout your car's finish from a horizontal point of view.



You can see that in order to remove these below surface defects you need to remove the highest areas of the paint until they are level with the lowest depths of the deepest scratches. In essence, you must remove paint.


When using the G100 Dual Action Polisher to remove defects, (This is different then merely applying a polish or a wax because you're trying to remove paint), you need to use a slow arm speed, overlap you passes by 50% and apply between 15 pounds and 20 pounds of pressure onto the head of the polisher.

To get an idea of how hard this is to push down, simply place your polisher onto an everyday bathroom scale and then press down on the head of the polisher and take note of how hard you're pushing. If you like, you can even tape some heavy plastic around the scale as you can see that I did in the below picture and actually turn the polisher on and practice pushing down as you move the polisher around. Also listen to the sound of the motor to get an idea of how it sounds at the pressure you are applying. Make sure you have someone to hold the scale in place when you do this.

15 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher


20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher


Move the polisher in different directions
You also want to go in at least two different directions, for example, from where you're standing, side to side, then front to back. You can also move the polisher in a kitty/corner fashion for complete, thorough and uniform cleaning action.



Only work a small area at a time
This will vary according to the shape, curve or body line of the panel you are polishing but for example on a large flat panel, you want to stay around a 12" to 18" squared area. The point being, don't try to work to large of an area all at once or you won't remove the defects equally everywhere.

Overlap your sections
When you move on to a new section, overlap into the old section for a uniform end results.


If you're applying a pure polish, or a polish/wax or a pure wax, then you can polish larger areas at a time, use a faster arm speed, use less pressure and make fewer passes because when applying these types of products you're not trying to remove paint, merely do a good job of working the product in and leaving behind a thin even coating.

This does not apply when using a cleaner/wax like ColorX on neglected paint because in this situation you're again trying to remove paint.

The point of the cleaning step is to remove the defects. Because the G100's polishing action is gentle and therefore safe, it takes time to remove small particles of paint in an effort to remove a defect, so concentrate hard at doing your best work when doing the cleaning step, don't skimp out during the step and try to rush it, your results will reflect that you didn't do a good job the first time.



Using M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish to remove light or shallow below surface defects such as deep swirls, scratches and etchings in the paint

This step would be for car finishes that have are in pretty good shape except of light/shallow swirls, scratches and etchings.

In most cases you would want to first do a Test Spot using M80 Speed Glaze and then check your results. If M80 Speed Glazes wasn't aggressive enough then you would try something more aggressive and this would be Meguiar's M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. Another option would be to apply a second application of M80 Speed Glaze and work it really well and check to see if this removed the defects instead of switching to the M83.

Applying M80 Speed Glaze is also excellent for re-polishing show cars to bring them back up to show car status. M80 Speed Glaze perfectly prepares any paint for application of your choice of wax.

Here are two cars that have been re-polished using M80 Speed Glaze to remove light swirls and scratches and prepare them for display.

The Panic Parrot
This wild Pro Street 1950 Studebaker Starlight Coupe is named Panic Parrot. Owner Steve Metz Creator of Muscle Machines is famous for taking his wildest imaginations and turning them into reality! With the Panic Parrot he has created yet another wild super rod in the same legacy of the Frantic Frog. And it not only looks wild, it is wild with a fuel injected 632 cubic inch Chevrolet engine.



Sniper
"Sniper", a 1954 Plymouth Belvedere that was totally reworked and customized by Troy Trepanier features a Viper V-10 engine and modified drive-train from a GTS Coupe. Unveiled at the SEMA Show as part of Hot Rod Magazines 50 years of Hot Rodding Showcase, it has been the recipient of many design awards.



If you use M80 Speed Glaze to showcase your talents as a detailer and create a flawless, liquid wet-looking finish on your car... then you're in good company!

Applying #80 Speed Glaze with the G-100

• Speed Setting - 4.5 to 5.0
• Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
• Pressure - 15 to 20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher
• Work Area - Work a small area at a time, about 1 foot square
• Time - Work the product until the diminishing abrasives have broken down, but you haven't gone completely to a dry buff.
• Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working. Speed Glaze is rich in polishing oils a little bit goes a long ways

When attempting to remove light swirls and scratches from your car's finish, use between 15 and 20 pounds of pressure to the head of the polisher. After polishing at these more aggressive pressures, you can always lighten up and make a few cover-passes at 10 to 15 pounds of pressure.

For very light polishing, you need only apply between 10 and 15 pounds of pressure to the head of the polisher.


For a little more aggressive cleaning action with the M80 Speed Glaze, increase your pressure to the 18, 19 and 20 pound range.



If you decide to re-polish any panels with a second application of the M80 Speed Glaze, be sure to first remove any leftover residue first before applying fresh product. This will insure the remaining residue will not adulterate or dilute the fresh product for best results.

After you've cleaned and polished your car's paint with either one-step process, (M80 Speed Glaze), or a two step process, (M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish followed by M80 Speed Glaze), and have wiped off any and all residue left on the finish, you are now ready to apply your favorite wax.



In the below outline, we list Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax; you can however use any wax you like for this step.

Applying NXT Tech Wax with the G-100

• Speed Setting - 3.0 to 4.0
• Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
• Pressure - 5 to 10 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher. You want to lightly engage the foam pad with the surface, not just float over it. This means using a few more pounds of pressure than just the weight of the machine resting on the surface.
• Work Area - You can work a much larger area when apply a wax if you have already previously cleaned and polished the finish with a cleaning and polishing step like those outlined above. For example you can apply wax to one half of the hood and then walk to the other side of the car and apply to the other half of the hood and continue to apply your wax like this as you work around the car. Apply wax to the entire car and then stop and wait for the wax to dry until it swipes clear.
• Time - Work the product long enough to make 2 to 3 passes over each square inch of the finish then move on to a new section.
• Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working. Thin coats are just as effective as thick coats plus they remove easier and use less product.

5 to 6 pounds of pressure for applying a wax after a dedicated cleaning and polish step



9 to 11 pounds of pressure for applying a wax if you need a little cleaning power when you're applying the wax






Removing the dried wax by hand or machine

After allowing the coating of wax to dry until it swipes clear, you are now ready to remove the wax by hand using a premium quality microfiber polishing cloth or a 100% cotton terry cloth towel. If you like however, you can also use your dual action polisher to remove the wax by using a microfiber bonnet over a clean dry pad.

Removing Polish or Wax with an Ultimate Bonnet on the G-100

• Speed Setting - 4.0 to 5.0
• Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
• Pressure - 15 to 20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher.
• Work Area - You can work panel by panel, for example, remove the wax from one half of the hood and then walk to the other side of the car and remove the wax from the other half of the hood. Repeat this to the entire car until all of the wax has been removed.

At this point you can call it quits or apply a second coat of wax.



Note about the pressure applied to the head of the polisher...

I've placed my hand on a scale before and often times guesstimated how hard to push down on the buffer head, but today I covered our bathroom scale with a thick plastic from a bag I cut up, taped it securely around the scale, then experimented running the polisher over the scale using the correct pad and chemical to try as best as I could to duplicate the exact thing I would do if I we're working on a real car.











I've polished out hundreds of cars using both the rotary buffer and the dual action polisher and have a pretty good feel for how much pressure to apply depending on what you want to accomplish.

To tell you the truth, I was quite surprised by the scale readings myself. I posted a range because that's truly how the dual action polisher works, it works within a range of pressure not a set number. Another factor is the condition of the paint, paint with only light swirls will only need pressure in the 15 pound range while paint with really deep swirls and harder paint will require pressure in the upper range running anywhere from 17 to 20, maybe even bumping over 20.

It was not a perfect system, but I'm confident the numbers are in the real world correct range. If you have a scale, and you have experience polishing out swirls with a dual action polisher using a foam pad like our W-8006 foam polishing pad, give it a try and compare notes.

Also when applying a wax, I found a little more than the weight of the polisher, yet enough to keep the pad flat against the finish was around the 10 pound range. For more cleaning ability, a person could apply a tad more pressure, so the range depends upon what you're trying to do.

These are all just suggestions, or course you can experiment with your car's finish and determine what works best for you.

Remember, it's not just about breaking down abrasives; it's about removing below surface defects. You remove below surface defects by removing the upper level paint that surrounds them.

Gliding the dual action polisher over a clear coat finish will not remove paint. Pushing down on the polisher, moving it slowly and the combination of time, your pad choice, chemical and oscillating action, gently and carefully abrade and remove small amounts of paint which levels the finish and thus removes the defects.