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Thread: whats good for removing water spots on car paint

          
  1. #1
    Registered Member REaudio's Avatar
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    whats good for removing water spots on car paint

    i tried vinegar, didnt touch it

  2. #2
    Registered Member Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Hi REaudio

    Welcome to Meguiar's Online!

    By hand, the answer is ScratchX, here are a couple of threads to read,

    How to use ScratchX by hand to remove defects like these,
    1. Scratches
    2. Swirls
    3. Bird Dropping Etchings
    4. Water spots
    5. Scuff and Mars


    ++ = Success!

    A couple of important notes to consider,

    1) Clear coats are harder than traditional paints. This means they are more difficult to remove defects out of, especially by hand. This is part explains the increase in popularity of the Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher.

    2) ScratchX is not a wipe-on, wipe-off product, (WOWO), it's more of a wipe on, work in product, (WOWI). You need to apply with a clean foam applicator pad and work the product in with a little passion.




    Here is how to remove a bird dropping etching or an isolated scratch.[list=1][*] Only work a small area at a time - about 6 inch by 6 inch area or smaller[*] You can apply using a combination of circular motions and straight-line motions[*] Work the product against the finish until it looks as you have almost run out of product.[*] Re-apply the product and repeat the above steps 2-3 more times[/list=1]
    When I apply ScratchX like I have listed above, I am able to get out about 95% of a bird dropping etching or isolated random scratches.

    The trick is to work the product in until it just begins to disappear and to apply more than one application. You see, the ScratchX, like all Meguiar's Paint Cleaners, contain a diminishing abrasive, as you work ScratchX in, the microscopic diminishing abrasives gently abrade the surface removing small particles of paint. But as you work it in, these diminishing abrasives breakdown. Thus, they quit abrading the finish and actually polish the finish to a clear, high gloss. This diminishing action turned polishing action is a benefit to you because it enable you to work out defects without leaving scratches behind.

    Because the diminishing abrasive breakdown, you need to re-apply and repeat the process until the defects are removed.

    Note: You can rarely remove a bird dropping etching, or a scratch, from a clear-coated finish with one application.

    "A little technique goes a long way"

    ScratchX works, if you work it. It takes a little practice to get the hang of removing defects out of modern clear coats with hi-tech products like ScratchX. It' not like the old days with a traditional lacquer or enamel paint job where you could apply some old-fashioned rubbing compound and in a few passes, the scratch would be gone, (and so would a lot of your paint).

    High gloss clear coats are thin delicate surface coatings that are easily dulled and easily scratched. Once they are dulled down and/or scratched, it takes the right product, the right technique together with the human element of care and passion to massage them back to a glistening gemstone.

    Have patience, and if at first you don't succeed, try try again.
    Mike Phillips
    Office: 800-869-3011 x206
    Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
    "Find something you like and use it often"

  3. #3
    Registered Member Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    How To Remove Water Spots off Automotive Paints

    Swirls, scratches and water spots are the three most common paint defects car enthusiasts struggle with when it comes to removing them and preventing them from coming back. In this how-to article we'll take a look at water spots, where they come from, how to remove them and also how to prevent them.

    There are two basic kinds of water spots or water marks found on automotive paints.
    • Type I Water Spots - Above Surface Mineral Deposits
    • Type II Water Spots - Below Surface Water Spot Etchings

    Type I Water Spots
    Type I Water Spots are what Meguiar's refers to as Above Surface Bonded Contaminants. A Type I water spot is some type of deposit, often times a mineral deposit that was suspended in the water source to begin with, then after the water evaporated off the finish the mineral is left behind where it bonds to the finish usually in a circular or pattern or shape.


    Type I Water Spots - Mineral deposits sitting on top of the paint







    How to Remove Type I Water Spots
    If you discover Type I Water Spots on your car's finish, it will often times require the use of both detailing clay and a paint cleaner to completely remove all trace of the mark left behind.


    • Step by step process for removing Type I Water Spots

      Step 1 - Wash & Dry the Car
      First wash the car thoroughly using a quality car wash to remove any loose contaminants and to also remove any portion of the mineral deposit that has not yet bonded to the paint. After washing the car, dry the car to remove any standing water and to prevent further accumulation of Type I Water Spots.

      Step 2 - Clay the Paint
      Use Meguiar's Smooth Surface™ Clay Kit to clay all affected paint panels. Meguiar's Detailing clay is a special clay that you knead into a wafer or patty, somewhat like a pancake, and then rub over the finish using Meguiar's Quik Detailer as a lubricant between the clay and the paint. As you're rubbing the clay over the finish, the specialized abrasives will loosen and remove any deposits sitting on top of the paint and trap them into the clay and our clay will do this without instilling scratches into the paint.

      Because as you're claying, you're removing these mineral deposits and trapping them into the clay itself, you'll want to take your clay patty and fold it into itself and then re-knead it to expose a fresh side of clay. Also keep a microfiber polishing cloth handy and wipe down the clayed area as you work to remove any excess Quick Detailer from the paint so that you won't have to re-wash the car.

      Repeat the above process until you've clayed all of the horizontal panels on your car and possibly even the vertical panels should you discover Type I Water Spots on the sides of your car's paint.

      Step 3 - Clean the Paint with a Paint Cleaner
      After claying the finish, re-inspect the affected areas, the paint should look smooth and clean as well as feel smooth like a piece of new glass. If you see any trace outlines in the paint where the water deposits were previously, then you'll now need to use a paint cleaner like ScratchX to remove these imperfections out of the paint.

      Any water spots or marks left in the paint after claying the paint are actually etchings in the paint and must be removed using a paint cleaner. Water Mark Etchings are what Meguiar's calls, Below Surface Defects, that is these water marks are where the mineral deposits, (left after the water evaporated off the finish), actually etched into, or ate into the paint. This is why the detailing clay did not completely remove these marks, it's because these marks are below the surface and detailing clay only removes contaminants sitting on top of the surface.

      ScratchX is a paint cleaner that uses Meguiar's Microscopic Diminishing Abrasive Technology to safely remove swirls, scratches and other below surface imperfections out of the paint. Simply apply ScratchX using a clean, soft foam applicator pad and then work the product against the finish with firm pressure. Work a small area or directly on the affected area for 2-3 minutes and then immediately remove any leftover product from the paint and inspect. If the mark is no longer visible, apply a coat of wax to protect the paint. If the mark is still visible, then repeat paint cleaning step using ScratchX. Some swirls, scratches and water spot etchings will require multiple applications to remove depending on how hard the paint is and how deep the defects are.





    Type II Water Spots - Etchings below the surface

    Type II Water Spots are what Meguiar's refers to as Below Surface Defects. A Type II Water Spot is actually an etching in the surface where whatever was in the water was strong enough in its chemical composition to actually eat or dissolve the paint and thus etch into the paint.


    Type II Water Spots - Etchings below the surface




    Close-up of same photo above





    If you discover Type II Water Spots in your car's finish, you can use a paint cleaner by hand such as ScratchX and the procedure outlined above in Step 3 for removing below surface etchings left by Type I Water Spots, or you can use a machine applied product such as a Meguiar's paint cleaner, or cleaner/polish to remove the water spot etchings using Meguiar's G100 Dual Action Polisher.

    Meguiar's Dual Action Polisher will safely clean your car's finish removing a small amount of paint in an effort to level, or smooth-out the paint. The goal is to remove just enough paint to level the upper most portions of the surface with the lowest depths of the defect you're trying to remove. In some cases you may want to check with a seasoned professional for their advice before attempting to remove below surface defects like Type II Water Spots.


    Important Note: Anytime you use detailing clay and/or a paint cleaner on your car's finish, you need to reapply a coat of wax to the paint as detailing clay and paint cleaners will remove any previously applied wax off the paint.



    How to prevent water spots from coming back
    There are two important things you can do to help prevent water spots from coming back, one is to remove water from the finish before it can dry and potentially leave a water spot. Meguiar's offers a number of different tools to help you do this including, our waffle weave Water Magnet Drying Towel, our Microfiber Super Suede Drying Towel, and our Super Thick Natural Chamois which comes in 4 different sizes.

    Besides keeping water off your car, the next best thing you can do is to keep maintain a good coat of wax on all the painted surfaces, to help with this Meguiar's offers a number of different waxes to suit everyone's preferences including, NXT Generation™ Tech Wax, Gold Class™ Liquid Wax and Deep Crystal System Carnauba Wax.
    Mike Phillips
    Office: 800-869-3011 x206
    Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
    "Find something you like and use it often"

  4. #4
    Registered Member Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    What it means to remove a scratch out of anything...


    In order to remove a scratch out of anything, metal, plastic glass, paint, etc. You must remove material around the scratch until the surface is level or equal to the lowest depths of the scratch or scratches.

    The below diagram if for paint, the the same thing applies to just about an surface material or coating.



    In essences, you don't really remove a scratch, you remove material around a scratch.

    Then the big question is, is the material or coating workable, as in can you abrade small particles of it and leave behind an original looking surface. For example, some things you can abrade, (remove the scratch), but you can never completely remove all of your abrading marks, thus you can't really fix the problem, all you can do is exchange one set of scratches of a different set of scratches.

    The next questions is, how thick is the surface material you're working on or the coating. You are limited to what you can do by the thickness of these to things, (surface coating or surface material), and whether or not this surface is workable.

    Sometimes you don't know what you can so until you try. It's always a good idea to test your choice of products, applicator materials and application process, (By hand or by machine), to an inconspicuous area. If you cannot make a small area look good with your product, applicator and process, you will not be able to make the entire surface look good. It's always a good idea to test first and error on the side of caution, versus make a mistake you cannot undo.
    Mike Phillips
    Office: 800-869-3011 x206
    Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
    "Find something you like and use it often"

  5. #5
    Registered Member Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Of course, the easiest way to remove any kind of defect out of a modern clear coat is to do so by machine...




    Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line

    Tips & Techniques for using the G-100a to remove swirls and other paint defects.

    Products Used
    Smooth Surface™ Clay Kit
    G-100a
    1 each W-7006 SOFTBUFF™ Cutting Pad (For use with the the Gold Class Bonnets)
    2 each W-8006 Soft Buff® Foam Polishing Pads (For use applying cleaner/polishes)
    1 each W-9006 SOFTBUFF™ Finishing Pad (For use applying NXT Tech Wax)
    #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish
    #80 Speed Glaze
    Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax
    Supreme Shine Microfiber
    X4003 Gold Class Clear Coat Safe Microfiber Bonnets 2-Pack



    First wash the car thoroughly. Pay special attention to loosening and removing any dirt particles from cracks and crevices to prevent these dirt particles from being introduced onto the surface during the polishing process. After washing and drying, inspect the surface both visually for below surface defects and with the palm of your clean hand for above surface defects.

    If you feel any tiny little bumps still attached to the finish after washing, proceed to clay the paint to safely remove these contaminants. After claying each panel, wipe the panel down with a quick detailer to remove any residue.

    Using Painters Tape, tape-off any plastic trim or components that you don't not want to get product onto and also tape-off any edges, high points or areas with known thin paint.



    Your car may not look like the below car, but the taped-off areas should...




    Let's begin!




    Using M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish to Remove Serious Below Surface Defects such as deep swirls, scratches and etchings in the paint

    This step would be for car finishes that have been neglected and/or abused. In most cases you would want to first do a Test Spot using M80 Speed Glaze and then check your results. If M80 Speed Glazes wasn't aggressive enough then you would try something more aggressive and this would be Meguiar's M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish.


    Applying #83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish with the G-100
    • Speed Setting - 5.0
    • Arm Speed - Slow Arm Speed
    • Pressure - 15 to 20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher
    • Work Area - Work a small area at a time, about 1 foot square
    • Overlapping motions - Overlap each pass by 50%, move the polisher using different patterns
    • Time - Work the product until the diminishing abrasives have broken down, but you haven't gone completely to a dry buff.
    • Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working



    The below diagram represents swirls and scratches evenly distributed throughout your car's finish from a horizontal point of view.



    You can see that in order to remove these below surface defects you need to remove the highest areas of the paint until they are level with the lowest depths of the deepest scratches. In essence, you must remove paint.


    When using the G100 Dual Action Polisher to remove defects, (This is different then merely applying a polish or a wax because you're trying to remove paint), you need to use a slow arm speed, overlap you passes by 50% and apply between 15 pounds and 20 pounds of pressure onto the head of the polisher.

    To get an idea of how hard this is to push down, simply place your polisher onto an everyday bathroom scale and then press down on the head of the polisher and take note of how hard you're pushing. If you like, you can even tape some heavy plastic around the scale as you can see that I did in the below picture and actually turn the polisher on and practice pushing down as you move the polisher around. Also listen to the sound of the motor to get an idea of how it sounds at the pressure you are applying. Make sure you have someone to hold the scale in place when you do this.

    15 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher


    20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher


    Move the polisher in different directions
    You also want to go in at least two different directions, for example, from where you're standing, side to side, then front to back. You can also move the polisher in a kitty/corner fashion for complete, thorough and uniform cleaning action.



    Only work a small area at a time
    This will vary according to the shape, curve or body line of the panel you are polishing but for example on a large flat panel, you want to stay around a 12" to 18" squared area. The point being, don't try to work to large of an area all at once or you won't remove the defects equally everywhere.

    Overlap your sections
    When you move on to a new section, overlap into the old section for a uniform end results.


    If you're applying a pure polish, or a polish/wax or a pure wax, then you can polish larger areas at a time, use a faster arm speed, use less pressure and make fewer passes because when applying these types of products you're not trying to remove paint, merely do a good job of working the product in and leaving behind a thin even coating.

    This does not apply when using a cleaner/wax like ColorX on neglected paint because in this situation you're again trying to remove paint.

    The point of the cleaning step is to remove the defects. Because the G100's polishing action is gentle and therefore safe, it takes time to remove small particles of paint in an effort to remove a defect, so concentrate hard at doing your best work when doing the cleaning step, don't skimp out during the step and try to rush it, your results will reflect that you didn't do a good job the first time.



    Using M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish to remove light or shallow below surface defects such as deep swirls, scratches and etchings in the paint

    This step would be for car finishes that have are in pretty good shape except of light/shallow swirls, scratches and etchings.

    In most cases you would want to first do a Test Spot using M80 Speed Glaze and then check your results. If M80 Speed Glazes wasn't aggressive enough then you would try something more aggressive and this would be Meguiar's M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. Another option would be to apply a second application of M80 Speed Glaze and work it really well and check to see if this removed the defects instead of switching to the M83.

    Applying M80 Speed Glaze is also excellent for re-polishing show cars to bring them back up to show car status. M80 Speed Glaze perfectly prepares any paint for application of your choice of wax.

    Here are two cars that have been re-polished using M80 Speed Glaze to remove light swirls and scratches and prepare them for display.

    The Panic Parrot
    This wild Pro Street 1950 Studebaker Starlight Coupe is named Panic Parrot. Owner Steve Metz Creator of Muscle Machines is famous for taking his wildest imaginations and turning them into reality! With the Panic Parrot he has created yet another wild super rod in the same legacy of the Frantic Frog. And it not only looks wild, it is wild with a fuel injected 632 cubic inch Chevrolet engine.



    Sniper
    "Sniper", a 1954 Plymouth Belvedere that was totally reworked and customized by Troy Trepanier features a Viper V-10 engine and modified drive-train from a GTS Coupe. Unveiled at the SEMA Show as part of Hot Rod Magazines 50 years of Hot Rodding Showcase, it has been the recipient of many design awards.



    If you use M80 Speed Glaze to showcase your talents as a detailer and create a flawless, liquid wet-looking finish on your car... then you're in good company!

    Applying #80 Speed Glaze with the G-100
    • Speed Setting - 4.5 to 5.0
    • Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
    • Pressure - 15 to 20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher
    • Work Area - Work a small area at a time, about 1 foot square
    • Time - Work the product until the diminishing abrasives have broken down, but you haven't gone completely to a dry buff.
    • Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working. Speed Glaze is rich in polishing oils a little bit goes a long ways



    When attempting to remove light swirls and scratches from your car's finish, use between 15 and 20 pounds of pressure to the head of the polisher. After polishing at these more aggressive pressures, you can always lighten up and make a few cover-passes at 10 to 15 pounds of pressure.

    For very light polishing, you need only apply between 10 and 15 pounds of pressure to the head of the polisher.


    For a little more aggressive cleaning action with the M80 Speed Glaze, increase your pressure to the 18, 19 and 20 pound range.



    If you decide to re-polish any panels with a second application of the M80 Speed Glaze, be sure to first remove any leftover residue first before applying fresh product. This will insure the remaining residue will not adulterate or dilute the fresh product for best results.

    After you've cleaned and polished your car's paint with either one-step process, (M80 Speed Glaze), or a two step process, (M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish followed by M80 Speed Glaze), and have wiped off any and all residue left on the finish, you are now ready to apply your favorite wax.



    In the below outline, we list Meguiar's NXT Generation Tech Wax; you can however use any wax you like for this step.

    Applying NXT Tech Wax with the G-100
    • Speed Setting - 3.0 to 4.0
    • Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
    • Pressure - 5 to 10 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher. You want to lightly engage the foam pad with the surface, not just float over it. This means using a few more pounds of pressure than just the weight of the machine resting on the surface.
    • Work Area - You can work a much larger area when apply a wax if you have already previously cleaned and polished the finish with a cleaning and polishing step like those outlined above. For example you can apply wax to one half of the hood and then walk to the other side of the car and apply to the other half of the hood and continue to apply your wax like this as you work around the car. Apply wax to the entire car and then stop and wait for the wax to dry until it swipes clear.
    • Time - Work the product long enough to make 2 to 3 passes over each square inch of the finish then move on to a new section.
    • Amount of product - Don't overuse product, use enough to lay down a film in the area you are working. Thin coats are just as effective as thick coats plus they remove easier and use less product.


    5 to 6 pounds of pressure for applying a wax after a dedicated cleaning and polish step



    9 to 11 pounds of pressure for applying a wax if you need a little cleaning power when you're applying the wax






    Removing the dried wax by hand or machine

    After allowing the coating of wax to dry until it swipes clear, you are now ready to remove the wax by hand using a premium quality microfiber polishing cloth or a 100% cotton terry cloth towel. If you like however, you can also use your dual action polisher to remove the wax by using a microfiber bonnet over a clean dry pad.

    Removing Polish or Wax with an Ultimate Bonnet on the G-100
    • Speed Setting - 4.0 to 5.0
    • Arm Speed - Medium Arm Speed
    • Pressure - 15 to 20 pounds of pressure on the head of the polisher.
    • Work Area - You can work panel by panel, for example, remove the wax from one half of the hood and then walk to the other side of the car and remove the wax from the other half of the hood. Repeat this to the entire car until all of the wax has been removed.


    At this point you can call it quits or apply a second coat of wax.



    Note about the pressure applied to the head of the polisher...

    I've placed my hand on a scale before and often times guesstimated how hard to push down on the buffer head, but today I covered our bathroom scale with a thick plastic from a bag I cut up, taped it securely around the scale, then experimented running the polisher over the scale using the correct pad and chemical to try as best as I could to duplicate the exact thing I would do if I we're working on a real car.











    I've polished out hundreds of cars using both the rotary buffer and the dual action polisher and have a pretty good feel for how much pressure to apply depending on what you want to accomplish.

    To tell you the truth, I was quite surprised by the scale readings myself. I posted a range because that's truly how the dual action polisher works, it works within a range of pressure not a set number. Another factor is the condition of the paint, paint with only light swirls will only need pressure in the 15 pound range while paint with really deep swirls and harder paint will require pressure in the upper range running anywhere from 17 to 20, maybe even bumping over 20.

    It was not a perfect system, but I'm confident the numbers are in the real world correct range. If you have a scale, and you have experience polishing out swirls with a dual action polisher using a foam pad like our W-8006 foam polishing pad, give it a try and compare notes.

    Also when applying a wax, I found a little more than the weight of the polisher, yet enough to keep the pad flat against the finish was around the 10 pound range. For more cleaning ability, a person could apply a tad more pressure, so the range depends upon what you're trying to do.

    These are all just suggestions, or course you can experiment with your car's finish and determine what works best for you.

    Remember, it's not just about breaking down abrasives; it's about removing below surface defects. You remove below surface defects by removing the upper level paint that surrounds them.

    Gliding the dual action polisher over a clear coat finish will not remove paint. Pushing down on the polisher, moving it slowly and the combination of time, your pad choice, chemical and oscillating action, gently and carefully abrade and remove small amounts of paint which levels the finish and thus removes the defects.
    Mike Phillips
    Office: 800-869-3011 x206
    Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
    "Find something you like and use it often"

  6. #6
    Registered Member REaudio's Avatar
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    holy **, you dont mess around

    i'll see how it goes

    thanks


  7. #7
    Nothing but Shine! BlueTooth's Avatar
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    wow, Ive never see that before great tip Mike with the bathroom scale. Ill have to try that.

    and yes we are serious folk here at MOL. we take everything to the highest level of perfection while all the others only do bare minimum.

    and good luck to you REaudio.
    2004 Ford Ranger Edge
    2000 BMW 540i 6spd
    1988 BMW 535is 5spd

  8. #8
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    AWESOME Post. The scale with pressures I'm sure is a GREAT help to people, I know it is to me

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