What am I doing wrong? (PIC)

[SkeeterJD]

I don't get it. Doesn't it seem as though the section that I worked became much duller? It looks as though it is a little clearer (less scratches) swirls, but what happened to gloss?

I am really debating on starting the rotary journey, but I thought I would give the DA a decent shot at proving me wrong but this has me baffled.

Procedure:

Wash (Liquid Crystal)
#83 with 8006 (5-speed slow arm speed multiple passes)
#80 with 8006 (5-speed slow arm speed multiple passes)
#7 with 9006 (4-speed slow arm speed multiple passes)
#26 with 9006 (3-speed medium arm speed one pass)

I only did a small section just to see the results I might get before jumping into a huge detailing job with the above procedure for the entire car, but was pretty disappointed with the results.

Can anyone help me out? I am willing to try just about anything, as well as buy anything to get a better results before taking the rotary plunge.

The car is a Black 2001 Corvette.

Thanks.

Scott

[Marcus]

My guess would be that you have something on your pad, old dried in products perhaps? At least it looks like it is the pad that is causing the scratches to me...

[Murr1525]

I take it the left side is the side you worked?

[SkeeterJD]

I worked the right side. Hence the duller sort of look.

I apologize for having posted this twice.

[SkeeterJD]

Originally posted by Marcus
My guess would be that you have something on your pad, old dried in products perhaps? At least it looks like it is the pad that is causing the scratches to me...

All the pads I used were just freshly washed/rinsed/dried. The #80 and #26 pas are practically brand new (used it only once before for a spot touch-up). The other pads are almost a year old, but I do not use the #7 pad, nor the #83 pad hardly at all (just on "complete" jobs).

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by SkeeterJD
I worked the right side. Hence the duller sort of look.

I apologize for having posted this twice.

Hi SkeeterJD,

I merged the two threads and then deleted one of you posts to create a single thread without any duplicate posts.

No big deal...

As far as the results you're getting.... strange because I've used this combo before and gotten great results, as long as the pads are clean and if we assume there's nothing wrong with the product and you've shaken them before using them, then the only other thing it can come down to is technique.

Read through this link and study the recommendation for technique and see if you find anything you did outside the posted recommendation.


Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line

[RedSoxRacer]

New Corvettes have extremely hard clear coat and they can take some work to bring out the full potential of the paint. Along with the hard clear, #83 takes some work to become broken down. When I have used it in the past on one of my Corvettes, I have had to work it for anywhere between 3-5 minutes in a 2ft X 2ft section. That being said, by using # 80 and # 7 afterwards, that should have helped clear up a lot of the "dullness" if used properly.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by RedSoxRacer
New Corvettes have extremely hard clear coat and they can take some work to bring out the full potential of the paint.

You know I've been telling people this for years trying to overcome the misconception that the clear coat finish on new Corvettes is soft. I am vindicated. When I use to read and post on CorvetteForum I would constantly read detailing gurus over post about how soft the paint on newer Corvettes are.

Along with the hard clear, #83 takes some work to become broken down. When I have used it in the past on one of my Corvettes, I have had to work it for anywhere between 3-5 minutes in a 2ft X 2ft section. That being said, by using # 80 and # 7 afterwards, that should have helped clear up a lot of the "dullness" if used properly.

Both great tips...

[SkeeterJD]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
Hi SkeeterJD,

I merged the two threads and then deleted one of you posts to create a single thread without any duplicate posts.

No big deal...

As far as the results you're getting.... strange because I've used this combo before and gotten great results, as long as the pads are clean and if we assume there's nothing wrong with the product and you've shaken them before using them, then the only other thing it can come down to is technique.

Read through this link and study the recommendation for technique and see if you find anything you did outside the posted recommendation.


Using the G-100 to remove swirls with the Professional Line

Mike-

What do you think would happen if you didn't use a lot of pressure? That is the only thing that I can think of that I didn't follow. I don't have a scale to see what kind of downward pressure I am applying to the surface, so could that do it? I wasn't necessarily allowing the DA to glide over the paint, but I know I wasn't standing on the polisher head either.

Can you think of any way that I could determine how hard I am pushing down without a scale? I am sure that pad compression can vary through how old the pad is and how primed it is, but should it be pretty much compressed all the way down so that it almost mushrooms a bit at the edges? The weight of the polisher itself accounts for the 15-20 lbs of pressure...right?

Man this is frustrating!

[Kickin Griffin]

Looking at the picture on the right, I would say that what you have there is very light hazing known as micromarring (very fine scratches), which is the result generally of using an aggressive compound on paint or the polish not fully breaking down. Compounds such as #85 or Menzerna Power Gloss give this effect, and following with a lighter abbrassive polish generally fixes it.

The abbrassive in many polishes start off large and very abbrassive, as the polish is worked the abbrassive break down and become less aggressive which refines the paint and removes the hazing left from when the abbrassive were more aggressive to remove the defects.

What I'm surprised by is the fact that following up with #80 on the polishing pad hasn't removed the hazing and retored the gloss to the finish at all...

When using #83 by PC, my main technique is as follows for hard paints -

> Work on 2' square area max
> Apply polish to pad and dab acorss area
> Speed 3, one fast pass with no pressure to spread polish
> Speed 5, one slow pass (1"/sec) with medium pressure (10lbs) over the PC head
> Speed 6, multiple passes until the polish begins to dust, again slow with medium pressure over the PC head

Generally, I wont use #83 using the W8006 pad - its fine, but for hard paints I would prefer the extra bite of light cutting or cutting pad: LakeCountry Orange or Yellow pads, then follow up with #80 on the W8006 pad.

[Kickin Griffin]

To guage how much pressure to apply, mark a black line on your backing plate with a marker pen. The pressure you want to apply is enough such that the G100 pitch changes but the pad still spins... With the machine on, apply pressure until the pad stops spinning (the black mark on the backing plate will stop spinning) then lift off slightly so that it begins to spin again - this is a good way to get the right pressure I feel for #83.

The abbrassives in #83 require pressure to do their job - they are like talc powder in a way, with no pressure they will not cut as effectively. If you used Menzerna polishes on the other hand, the abbrassives are aluminium oxide and are very brittle so applied pressure shatters the abbrassive and ruins the work they can do, they must be worked with no pressure and allowed to just generate heat. Different polishes requiring very different methods...

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Kickin Griffin
When using #83 by PC, my main technique is as follows for hard paints -

> Work on 2' square area max
> Apply polish to pad and dab across area
> Speed 3, one fast pass with no pressure to spread polish
> Speed 5, one slow pass (1"/sec) with medium pressure (10lbs) over the PC head
> Speed 6, multiple passes until the polish begins to dust, again slow with medium pressure over the PC head

Generally, I wont use #83 using the W8006 pad - its fine, but for hard paints I would prefer the extra bite of light cutting or cutting pad: LakeCountry Orange or Yellow pads, then follow up with #80 on the W8006 pad.

The problem with this is while you may have the skills and abilities to make your system work, on this forum we don't recommend or endorse products and methods that can cause problems.

In this case, Meguiar's doesn't recommend using the polisher on the 6.0 setting because sooner or later the adhesive that holds the Velcro onto either the foam and/or the backing plate to de-laminate and then the next thing the customer does is call us and ask for a free replacement.

We also don't recommend working a product till it's dry or dusts because at this point you've lost lubricity and friction will increase and you'll start hazing the finish.

Does that make sense?

[RedSoxRacer]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips
You know I've been telling people this for years trying to overcome the misconception that the clear coat finish on new Corvettes is soft. I am vindicated. When I use to read and post on CorvetteForum I would constantly read detailing gurus over post about how soft the paint on newer Corvettes are.




Both great tips...

Mike-
I have seen you post about hard Corvette clear coat in the past, and I have also seen a lot of "experts" say that the paint is soft. By no means do I consider myself all knowing about polishing paints, but from my experience with working on hundreds of Corvettes, from the original 53 all the way up to my '06 ZO6, the newer Corvettes have some of the hardest paint I have ever encountered. You have been right all along, and I know you aren't worried about what some other people on the Corvette forums say, all you have to do is look at the work you do.

SkeeterJD-
#83 does require quite a bit of pressure and work to get it to break down properly. Simply letting the weight of the polisher act as your pressure is not going to get the job done. Don't be affriad to press down a little!

[Kickin Griffin]

Makes sense... I've never personally had any issues using any pads (LC, Sonus, Meguairs) up at speed 6 however... other than one 4" pad the flew into a neighbours window because I lifted the polisher off the paint with the machine still switched on by accident...

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Kickin Griffin
Makes sense... I've never personally had any issues using any pads (LC, Sonus, Meguiar's) up at speed 6 however... other than one 4" pad the flew into a neighbors window because I lifted the polisher off the paint with the machine still switched on by accident...

(about the flying pad)


One of the things I like to is Bubb-Proof products and processes and as a results de-lamination is an issue. It doesn't always happen, but at the 6.0 speed setting, --> over time <--, the adhesive will give-up and the Velcro will lift off...

The problem is that sometimes people's expectations for technology is unreal and the limits are pushed past science can deliver.