Rough surface - Rotary buffer, Paint Cleaner or Clay?

[gwongster]

Hi,

I have 2 cars. One, which my wife drives is a BMW E90 3 series which is a year old. I drive a VW Touareg V8 which is comin up on its second year. The BMW, when I bought it had a 3 year coating put on it and the VW had a 5 year CPC paint sealant applied.

Now, both cars have some sort of roughness on the paint and I am wondering how to clean it to get that smooth as glass feeling. So far, for the 3 series, I have washed it, used the Cleaner Wax before applying the Gold Class clear coat. Result - not much change. Now, I am wondering whether or not to buy a rotary buffer to buff out the paint or is there a another way to clean the paint.

I have bought the Paint Cleaner and Polish as well. Should I do the 3 step process by hand and hope that this will remove the embedded dirt and roughness or should I invest in a rotary buffer? What is the way to approach it? Or should I use a clay bar plus the Paint Cleaner. Should I use the Paint cleaner at all and will it, by hand application remove the embedded dirt?

Thanks

Gary

[fishbonezken]

I have some roughness in my paint too which has embedded into the paint...in my opinion, the DC step1 paint cleaner would not work, it is not very abrasive, it didnt remove my bonded contaminants.

have yet to try claying..

[Mike Phillips]

Hi Gary and fishbonezken,

You both need to get some detailing clay and clay your car's finish. Detailing clay contains a special type of abrasive that will remove any contaminants sitting on top of and bonded to the paint without scratching the paint or removing the paint.

Claying your car's paint will restore the smooth as glass feeling to it because it's removing all the gunk that has built-up on the paint. This restores gloss, because now the surface is smooth again, (gloss comes from smoothness), and it will enable your wax to last longer because now it can adhere better to the paint itself because the contaminants are out of the way.


A rotary buffer is best used for removing below surface defects like sanding marks and things like swirls and scratches that have accumulated over time. It's not a tool you just pick up and start using especially on something that has value to you.

It's also the kind of tool that will give your upper body a pretty good workout.

[Mike Phillips]

Take a look at the bonded contaminants we removed from cars we worked on at our Saturday Detailing classes here in SoCal. Note that when brand new the detailing clay is very white. Also note that before claying the cars are either washed or wiped down with a quick detailer to remove any loose dirt. The dirt and gunk you're seeing on these clay bars is dirt and other airborne contaminants that have settled onto the paint and then bonded to the finish before the owner had time to remove them with a normal car wash.

All cars that are daily drivers are exposed to dirt and other contaminants in the air and after these contaminants land on your car's finish, if they are not removed in a timely manner some of them will bond, or glue for a lack of a better term, onto the paint to the point where washing alone will not remove them.

This is where detailing clay comes in. Check it out...













Claying is simple, easy and pretty much Bubba-Proof! First knead your clay into a flat wafer kind of like a pancake.




Then simply mist some Quick Detailer or Speed Detailer onto the paint and also onto your clay bar and then rub the clay bar over the finish somewhat like you would rub a bar of soap over the skin on your arm. Detailing clay is non abrasive in that it won't put a scratch into your car's paint but it will remove anything sitting on top of the paint. Because it is non abrasive it doesn't matter which way you move your hand, you can rub the clay bar in straight lines or circles, which ever is your preference or what works best for the panel you're claying.






You can also clay glass like this guy is doing on this Porsche










Focus on the task at hand, don't be looking at the guy taking your picture!






Of course it goes faster if you have a dozen or so people all working on one car!






Hot Rods need claying too! We discovered RED Overspray Paint on the clear coat finish on this hotrodded Suburban!





[IMG]http://archive.meguiarsonline.com
Yeperdoo... even this Rolls Royce needs to be clayed...

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/galler...ollsRoyce2.jpg[/IMG]




Mist on some Quik Detailer or some Speed Detailer



And then move the clay bar over the finish... Use anywhere from 3-8 pounds of pressure, typically the worse the finish is the more pressure you'll want to apply to remove the contaminants quickly and efficiently.










While most of the accumulated bonded contaminants will be on the horizontal or flat panels, that doesn't mean you won't find bonded contaminants on the sides or vertical panels. After washing the car or in this case a Jeep, simply take the palm of your clean hand and feel the paint...




If you feel little tiny bumps or a roughness, this is an indicator your paint needs to be clayed.






Here's some guys from CorvetteForum claying a Corvette




Focusing on the task at hand...






This guys claying the stainless steel trim around the glass and then he's going to clay the glass on this Challenger built on the Overhaulin show...







If you're parked downwind from this guy you're going to need to clay your car!

[Erik Mejia]

Mike is right, clay is the best option, I like the Smooth surface clay kit myself.

[Erik Mejia]

Claying is simple, easy and pretty much Bubba-Proof! First knead your clay into a flat wafer kind of like a pancake.

Bubba Proof... hahaha now thats funny, I've never heard it put that way.

[gwongster]

Thanks

Thanks for the advice. I'm off to buy some clay and quick detailer.

[Murr1525]

If you get the Smooth Surface kit, it comes with clay, quick detailer, a cloth to wipe off excess, and some cleaner/wax.

The Quick Clay kit just had clay and quick detailer. But both will work fine, whichever is on the shelf near you.

[Mike Phillips]

Also, just to note... in most cases here's the order you would follow,

• Step 1 Wash car or wipe clean using a quick detailer - remove the loose dirt before claying.
  Step 2 Clay paint
  Step 3 Clean Paint with a paint cleaner like ScratchX or Step 4 Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner
  Step 5 Polish Paint - Optional in that you don't have to do it. Deep Crystal Polish or #7 Show Car Glaze
  Step 6 Protect - Add two coats of your favorite wax.

The reason you --> typically <-- clay the paint first is to remove the dirt and gunk sitting on top of the surface so that when you use the paint cleaner this gunk is out of the way so the paint cleaner can clean the paint under it.

The only time you want to use a paint cleaner before claying the paint is if you're working on an extremely oxidized single stage paint. The reason for this is because if you clay extremely oxidized single stage paint, all of the dead paint will come off and load up your clay bar and this kind of wastes your clay bar.

The below excerpt was taken from here,

1986 Ford Bronco II - Extreme Makeover


Next, I clayed all of the horizontal surfaces and upper vertical surfaces using Meguiar's new Quik Clay System.



Before claying the panels, be sure to spray some Quik Detailer onto both the clay and the panel to be worked.



Then simply work the clay back and forth over one section at a time, kind of like you would rub a bar of soap over your skin.



You can usually feel when the surface goes smooth as glass.


Here's what the clay bar looked like after claying only the hood.

It's Not very pretty, but the dirt and contaminants that the clay bar has safely removed will go a long way to insuring a high gloss, smooth as glass finish.




As you can see, there is a lot of blue pigment, (dead paint), in the clay bar. This could have been avoided by cleaning the paint first, i.e. rubbing the paint out with a product like ScratchX, or Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner, or even ColorX to remove the dead paint and then clay the paint and remove the bonded contaminants the paint cleaners did not remove.

Just to note, in a case such as this, after first cleaning the paint, and then claying the paint, it would still be a good idea to re-clean the paint because the first application of a paint cleaner will not have cleaned the paint that had bonded contaminants stuck to it because the bonded contaminants would have been in the way. It's a small thing, but if you're a perfectionist, then you would want to take this extra step.

[fishbonezken]

excellent write-up Mike! Appreciate the effort.
I have a question, by bonded contaminants, are they visible?
My 'contaminants' are somewhat white in colour, that is, my car's colour...it's IN the paint...are these bumps the 'roughness' ? or

something is wrong since the beginning.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by fishbonezken
excellent write-up Mike! Appreciate the effort.
I have a question, by bonded contaminants, are they visible?
My 'contaminants' are somewhat white in color, that is, my car's colour...it's IN the paint...are these bumps the 'roughness' ? or

something is wrong since the beginning.

This could be Overspray Paint from the painting process. Claying will remove overspray paint.


It could also be something that went wrong when the car was painted. Is this factory paint? Or has the car been repainted? It could be the only honest fix is to re-paint the affected areas.

Wet-sanding may fix the problem, but your talking about a very involved process that would have to be tested first and only after all of your above options have been exhausted.

[fishbonezken]

LOL is batman your son there? That's funny.
The bumps I have are on OEM paints, my hood(which has been resprayed) does not have these bumpy problems.
I am going to try claying first.

But, am I allowed to use DC1 and then only clay?(so that the clay doesnt have to work much and I can save it for another car )

Or it will decrease the clay's 'picking up contaminants' power, with DC1 over the paint.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by fishbonezken
LOL is batman your son there? That's funny.

Yes, that's my son Rand.

The bumps I have are on OEM paints, my hood (which has been resprayed) does not have these bumpy problems.
I am going to try claying first.

Could be a number of things, give the clay a try and see what happens.

But, am I allowed to use DC1 and then only clay?(so that the clay doesn't have to work much and I can save it for another car )

Or it will decrease the clay's 'picking up contaminants' power, with DC1 over the paint.

Paint cleaners are for removing below surface defects, they will do nothing for these bumps except to clean them and make them look shiny. Also, correctly used, after you apply a paint cleaner you wipe it off and you don't leave a coating behind.

After washing or wiping clean with a quick detailer, go right to claying and see what you can do.

[kd1659]

Re: Rough surface - Rotary buffer, Paint Cleaner or Clay?

Hi Gary and fishbonezken,

You both need to get some detailing clay and clay your car's finish. Detailing clay contains a special type of abrasive that will remove any contaminants sitting on top of and bonded to the paint without scratching the paint or removing the paint.

Claying your car's paint will restore the smooth as glass feeling to it because it's removing all the gunk that has built-up on the paint. This restores gloss, because now the surface is smooth again, (gloss comes from smoothness), and it will enable your wax to last longer because now it can adhere better to the paint itself because the contaminants are out of the way.


A rotary buffer is best used for removing below surface defects like sanding marks and things like swirls and scratches that have accumulated over time. It's not a tool you just pick up and start using especially on something that has value to you.

It's also the kind of tool that will give your upper body a pretty good workout.

Clay does not contain any abrasive , it simply "grabs" the grit from the surface . The main thing to remember when Claying is to keep the surface wet / lubricated to keep any grit from reaching the surface and scratching . When you feel the surface turn smooth its time to move on to another section .