fill in by polishing oil: more important for touch up paint than for original paint?

[ktlimq]

Meguiars says that Meguiars pure polishes fill microscopic pores of old paint (replace the original resins, (or oils), that have been broken-down) and thus makes the paint last longer and resist stains better.

In order to put Meguiars polishing oils into the microscopic pores of the paint, however, I need to clean the paint. So I need total 5 steps in one day:
wash -> clay -> paint cleaner -> polish -> wax.

For a non-car-crazy person, this is too much work. So I want to ask this.

Does Meguiars Cleaner Wax also fills in microscopic pores of old paint with trade secret Meguiars oils and thus makes the paint last longer and resist stains better? (If yes, how many applications of Cleaner Wax fills in as much as one application of pure polish?)
Or, for the “fill in” effect, must I use Meguiars pure polish?




My question is related to the following claim by Meguiars:
=================
When you apply a Meguiar's polish, the trade secret oils found in all Meguiar's polishes, (and even Meguiar's compounds, cleaner/polishes and even some waxes), penetrate into the paint and replace the original resins, (or oils), that have been broken-down, leached out and/or deteriorated. These trade secret oils then act to fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets and surface imperfections thus preventing unwanted substances from entering into these areas.
==================

[ktlimq]

fill in by polishing oil: more important for touch up paint than for original paint?

Is the “fill in” by polishing oil more important for touch up paint (the single stage touch up paint stick available at car dealer or auto parts store) than for original paint?

A while ago, I read an online wax review at carreview.com. This one is interesting, because my car also has many touched up spots and some of them actually peel off.

Someone had been using Meguiars products for a couple of years and then switched to other brand. That wax company does not claim that the oil in their products penetrate into the microscopic pores to replace the lost original resins in the paint. After the switch to the other brand, the touch up paint on his car started to peel off.
Well, the peel off of touched up spots and the switch to other car care brand might be just an accidental coincidence. But there is a chance that the touch up paint peeled off because the microscopic pores were not filled by the other brand product.


My question is related to the following claim by Meguiars:
==================
When you apply a Meguiar's polish, the trade secret oils found in all Meguiar's polishes, (and even Meguiar's compounds, cleaner/polishes and even some waxes), penetrate into the paint and replace the original resins, (or oils), that have been broken-down, leached out and/or deteriorated. These trade secret oils then act to fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets and surface imperfections thus preventing unwanted substances from entering into these areas.
==================

[Mike Phillips]

The problem with this topic is you'll have a few educated friends that will read more into it than what it really means. If you examine these people's posting history you'll see they are very emotional about whose wax they prefer and if you don't see things their way they'll go off on you and the rest of the world.


For example the word, replace in the above statement has been read to mean, join and become one with when that's not the intended idea.

Here's some threads for your to read and then you can make up your own mind as to what you want to use and what you want to do, in the big picture, Meguiar's has been around for over 100 years with a legacy of hundreds of thousands, and even millions of cars that look phenomenal because the owners used our products.

Question about #80

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8331

Why Meguiar's recommends polishing paint

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7058

[Mike Phillips]

I've also merged your two similar questions into this one thread.

Meguiar's Cleaner/Waxes contain Meguiar's trade secret polishing oils, so if you use nothing but the cleaner/wax you will be introducing these oils as well as all the other ingredients in the wax to the paint.

Just to note, Meguiar's A12 Cleaner/Wax was introducued in 1973 and today is the top selling cleaner/wax 33 years later.

Kind of a testimony to the effectiveness and thus the popularity of the product.

1973






Today




ktlimq,

”Find something you like and use it often”

If you find a product you like, then apparently the results look good in your eyes, if you use it often, then your finish will always look great. It's only when you begin to neglect or abuse the finish that it goes down hill.

[ktlimq]

When I visited Carreview.com and saw the wax review containing peeling touch up paint, I did not search the post history of that poster.

I do not want to argue about the exact meaning of 'replace'.
Anyway, this is from Mike's post

================
For over 100 years, Meguiar's trade secret oils have been proven to beautify and maintain automotive paints.

1) They add beauty, gloss and reflectivity
. . . . . .

2) They replace and replenish the oils/resins originally present in your car's paint
Meguiar's trade secret oils penetrate into and fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets, and surface imperfections created in your car's paint by the effects of either oxidation or reduction. This prevents detrimental substances from getting into these microscopic areas and accelerating the deterioration of your car's finish.
================


The "beauty" aspect is what I myself can see and decide.

However, the "maintain" aspect is very difficult for me to evaluate. That is why I posted those two questions.

[Mike Phillips]

I'm not sure what it is you want to know?

How about posting a simple, one sentence question?

[Mike Phillips]

Guess not?


Maybe this will help, if you're going to apply touch up paint, clean the affected area to the best of your ability, this can be quite hard because usually rock chips are small. Digging out any dried wax with a toothpick is one idea, another idea is to wipe the chip clean using a mixture of 50/50 Isopropyl Alcohol to water.


Hope this helps....

[ktlimq]

I just copied my question from my original posts, and added short notes to prevent confusion.

[1] Does Meguiars Cleaner Wax also fills in microscopic pores of old paint with trade secret Meguiars oils and thus makes the paint last longer and resist stains better? (If yes, how many applications of Cleaner Wax fills in as much as one application of pure polish?)

Note: please give me comparison of Cleaner Wax and pure polish in the “maintaining” effect, not the “beautifying” effect. The term “maintaining” effect is from Mikes post, which I quoted below.

[2] Is the “fill in” by polishing oil more important for touch up paint (the single stage touch up paint stick available at car dealer or auto parts store) than for original paint?

Note: by the “original” paint I mean the paint applied in car factory, or in body shop to re-produce the factory finish.



To make sure we use at least some words to mean the same thigs, I quote some parts of Mike’s post.

==============
Why Meguiar's recommends polishing paint - posted: Jul 8th, 2005 at 10:02 PM
Mike Phillips


Resins
The primary ingredient used in automotive paints to actually coat over, protect, and beautify your vehicle is called resin. . . . .

. . . . .. . Even though modern resins are more durable, they will breakdown over time through deterioration.

When the resins breakdown and are removed from the surface, they leave behind pockets of air or pores into which water and other unwanted substances can penetrate into. . . . . . . . . . .
.
.
.


When you apply a Meguiar's polish, the trade secret oils found in all Meguiar's polishes, (and even Meguiar's compounds, cleaner/polishes and even some waxes), penetrate into the paint and replace the original resins, (or oils), that have been broken-down, leached out and/or deteriorated. These trade secret oils then act to fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets and surface imperfections thus preventing unwanted substances from entering into these areas.
.
.
.



For over 100 years, Meguiar's trade secret oils have been proven to beautify and maintain automotive paints.

Meguiar's Trade Secret Oils
The trade secret oils used in Meguiar's products for over 100 years benefit your paint in a number of different ways, here are two very important ones,

1) They add beauty, gloss and reflectivity
. . . . . . . . .


2) They replace and replenish the oils/resins originally present in your car's paint
Meguiar's trade secret oils penetrate into and fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets, and surface imperfections created in your car's paint by the effects of either oxidation or reduction. This prevents detrimental substances from getting into these microscopic areas and accelerating the deterioration of your car's finish.

.
.
.
.

============


Meguiars polishes benefit paint in many ways. One of them is to “maintain” the paint by replacing and replenishing the oils/resins – in the quoted text, it is numbered as “(2)”.

My questions are related to this “maintaining” aspect of Meguiars polishing oils.

Ordinary users cannot easily get an idea on how much “maintaining” effect a car care product provides.

Note that the term "maintaining" effect here is different from the protection by a wax coat. I want to remind you that a new paint beads water and somewhat stain resistant even without wax coating. I think the "maintaining" effect of Meguiars polishing oil is to give such ability to old paint.

The term "maintaining" effect here should not be confused with the term "maintain" in this phrase:"step 5 maintain paint with Quick Detailer".





p.s.
Some explanation about the online revuew I mentioned.

The review on carreview.com I mentioned in my original post bashed TurtleWax product. He had no problem on touch up spots while he was using Meguiars product, but the touched up spots peeled off after he started using TurtleWax product. So he blamed TurtleWax product.

However, if someone experiences the opposite (touched up spots peels off after switching from TurtleWax to Meguiars), should we blame Meguiars product? No, because there are so many factors that may cause the touch up paint to peel off.

So we need to ask those who did controlled experiments: manufacturers of car care products.

[Mike Phillips]

I'm not sure where you're going with this?

Can you post a simple, one sentence question?


What is your car care goal?

What are you working on?

What is it you're trying to do?

[ktlimq]

Each of my questions is one sentence in my first posts.

I added note to clarify that my questions are about "maintaining" effect of Meguiars polishing oils. The term [maintaining effect of Meguiars polishing oils] comes from Meguiars.

I already said that the
[maintaining effect of Meguiars polishing oils] is not a thing that an ordinary user can evaluate by trying a product once or twice and "seeing" the result by her/his own eyes.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Cleaner Wax also fills microscopic pores of old paint (replace the original resins)?

Originally posted by ktlimq

Does Meguiars Cleaner Wax also fills in microscopic pores of old paint with trade secret Meguiars oils and thus makes the paint last longer and resist stains better?

Yes. Actually, any quality wax or polish fills if it leaves something behind on the surface and in the microscopic pores and swirls and scratches. Does that make sense? If you apply a product and after removing the excess the product is leaving a part of itself behind, then it is coating over and filling. This would apply to any product, not just Meguiar's.

(If yes, how many applications of Cleaner Wax fills in as much as one application of pure polish?)
Or, for the “fill in” effect, must I use Meguiars pure polish?

Oh I don't know, you would have to simply go out to your garage and do your own experimenting. If your goal is to make your paint look good and have it be protected in as few steps as possible, then a good product for this would be either our Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax in the maroon bottle, or the ColorX.

Hope that helps...

[sneek]

(If yes, how many applications of Cleaner Wax fills in as much as one application of pure polish?)

Why does it matter? If you are going to spend all that time applying coats of A12 couldn't you just go and do the full DC1, DC2 and wax?

If you need the show car finish its going to take a longer time to produce then just an above average finish

you have to give to receive

[ktlimq]

Originally posted by sneek
Why does it matter? If you are going to spend all that time applying coats of A12 couldn't you just go and do the full DC1, DC2 and wax?

I did not mean [applying many coats of A12 in one day].

[Mike Phillips]

Generally speaking, best results are achieved when a multi-step approach is used including, a dedicated paint cleaner, a dedicated polish and a dedicated pure wax. An exception would be a brand new paint job or a brand new car because under normal circumstances, the paint should be flawless to begin with... it is brand new.

[Mike Phillips]

If you want to polish and protect in one step and don't really need any cleaning action, then Gold Class wax is a polish/wax.