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Acenas
May 26th, 2005, 12:13 PM
What equipment produces this much foam? Where to buy? I havent seen this before.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/gallery/data/500/1482Yellow_Gallardo_01.jpg

TOGWT
May 26th, 2005, 01:10 PM
Butchers-Products & Services - Shower Foam Gun Butcher’s Shoots foam six feet with the squeeze of a handle. Adjusts to five different dilution settings and a rinse...

butchers.com/foamgun [edited for commercial link: 2hotford]

Buellwinkle
May 26th, 2005, 07:05 PM
I don't get it. You foam up the car, then use a mitt I guess to wash the car and then rinse. But if you use a mitt without dunking it in a bucket it will get really dirty quickly and you'll get swirls and if you dunk anyway just to rinse the mitt, what's the point, might as well dunk in soapy water? The only advantages I can think off is the gee-wiz factor for a customer to see and speed for high production where swirls may increase business for total details.

Acenas
May 27th, 2005, 02:21 AM
Thank you for the link, looks nothing like it though.:D This must be profesional equipment type of a gun as it has no reservoir for the shampoo. That pic is from WAC in bankok.

Buellwinkle... I guess its mostly for the wow factor, some customers always think they are getting more when they see foam. I assume its also a good tool as its being used in a very good center from what I can tell from the post I stole the pic from. I would also rather have more foam than what a glove can pick up, Im guessing the foam lifts the dirt better. Sure you can do without it, but it looks fun.:D

Mike Phillips
May 27th, 2005, 04:45 AM
I can contact Pairoj Ateerat and ask him what kind of system he uses to foam the cars as I'm not sure what tool or system he's using.

For the most part, foaming the car is for the Wow-Effect, I must admit, it looks cool and to the average car owner, it most certainly looks like your car is getting very clean!

Perception is reality, however in Pairoj Ateerat's business, you can be assured your car really is getting clean as he runs a 5-Star operation.

One benefit I could see from foam would be dwell-time for the soap to remain on the surface, softening and loosening the dirt and other contaminants on the paint. We incorporate this same idea into our new NXT Generation™ Tire Cleaner

http://www.meguiars.com/estore/images/product_g125.gif


Our thick, luxurious foam clings to the tire sidewall to deeply penetrate and break away the toughest dirt and grime.


I'll send him an e-mail and ask him to chime in...

Tanat198
May 27th, 2005, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by Buellwinkle
I don't get it. You foam up the car, then use a mitt I guess to wash the car and then rinse. But if you use a mitt without dunking it in a bucket it will get really dirty quickly and you'll get swirls and if you dunk anyway just to rinse the mitt, what's the point, might as well dunk in soapy water? The only advantages I can think off is the gee-wiz factor for a customer to see and speed for high production where swirls may increase business for total details.

Agree on principle. It 's so true..but it looks so cool too. All the detailing shops are using this foam gun.

Mike Phillips
May 27th, 2005, 05:33 AM
An e-mail has been sent to Pairoj

the other pc
May 27th, 2005, 06:58 AM
I agree that since we don't see any reservoir it's probably a commercial foaming system. These are quite common in industrial wash-down and Haz-Mat circles. As mike points out you get major dwell time. That's critical for disinfectants and neutralizing agents but I can see benefit for simple soaps too.

Besides the "wow" I can see another benefit to the "visibleness" of it. When you're using your mitt or brush or whatever it's immediately obvious what areas of the car you've already washed. On a car that's pretty clean to begin with it's easy to "miss a spot" with just soapy water. The foam would work sort of like shaving cream.

Probably not a big deal to the enthusiast or somebody doing a single car but if you're washing a bunch of cars or you're in a "production" environment that sort of self verifying process is very useful.


PC.

buda
May 29th, 2005, 02:30 AM
First, the foaming gun you refer to is available in the USA from a US manufacturer. Been available on the market for years.

Second, whoever posted the point of spraying the car with foam and then using a mitt is correct, you could scratch the paint.

The foam will put the chemical on the car to breakdown and emulsify the dirt and road film, but you do need friction to remove.

And, to prevent the grit from scratching the paint you need a great deal of water to act as a barrier between the mitt and the paint surface.

This is what the Technical University of Munich (backed by a similiar test done by the University of Texas) concluded in the test they conducted for Mercedes Benz a few years ago to determine which is more harmful for the paint finish, machine washing or hand washing.

In the test they washed a car by hand 26 times and by automatic machine 26 times (and when the test was taken they used an automatic with plastic bristles not today's soft cloth or foam) and then took microscopic photos of the paint finish and determined that the hand washed vehicle hand far more uneven and deeper scratches than the machine washed vehicle.

Why?

First, the mitt/sponge immediately picked up grit when placed on the paint the initial time and this then acted like sandpaper each time it was used on the car during the wash process.

The carwash machine whose brushes are bombarded with water and shampoo during the wash process first, washed away the grit and second provided a barrier between the mitt/sponge and the paint.

Conclusion, if you are going to hand wash you need to keep water between your mitt and the paint when washing. The testors concluded you should have the mitt in one hand and a running water hose in the other to duplicate what you have in an automatic carwash.

Hope that helps.

Bud Abraham

Bill D
May 29th, 2005, 03:31 AM
I don't simply foam the car then use the mitt, I constantly run the stream of soapy mix the gun produces and wash a section of the car at a time. I very gently whisk the mitt across the paint. The constant flow of streaming, foamy soap mix acts as an active barrier between the mitt and the paint. Combined with changing mitts frequently, it really is a great, and admittedly over the top,time consuming way to wash. I'd rather do that than reduce my clear more by possibly having to polish more often.

It's basically a non mainstream, quirky, to each his own method.

The photo of the foam gun in my avatar is made by Gilmour. The Butchers and Simple Green version are re brands.

buda
May 29th, 2005, 05:39 AM
You are on the right track, but I am afraid that the foam is not sufficient enough of a barrier as the water would be to prevent scratching. A flow of water is much better than simply foam.

You see this mistake being made all the time anywhere you see hand washes. People dip into the soapy bucket and then wash and wash and wash, with foam all over the car thinking that this is helping to clean and to create a barrier (actually most do not even realize the issue of water being a barrier). However, the foam is not enough.

We teach our students to dip everytime they work on a different section of the car. Twice on the hood and once on a fender, sometimes twice on a door, etc. The water is the key, do not be mislead by foam only. It is only air. If there is foam there is not much water.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bill D
May 29th, 2005, 07:48 AM
Bud,

I'm relying on the constant stream of soapy mix that the foam gun produces, not the foam nor water alone. I see the foam mostly as a by product, not really part of the formula for marring free washing. The constant soapy mix, but more important, extreme care during the actual process is most vital. This is not a 1,2,3 and you're done approach. A friend actually takes several hours! But that does include cleaning each and every nook and cranny of the car's exterior including a complete wash of the undercarriage.

I'm probably going to be switiching over to a brand new mitt entirely when I used to see it time to dip and maybe switch over to a new one sometime in the middle of the wash procedure.

Yeah, it's overboard , extreme and impractical but this is for personal vehicles and not a business wash/detailing setting.

buda
May 29th, 2005, 09:10 AM
You are not overboard at all if it protects your paint finish.

What concerns me is that the Gilmore Foam Guns I have used put out foam and not a great deal of water and it is the water that creates the barrier, not the foam. As I said, when you have foam you have air not water.

What is much easier is using a soft cloth or foam automatic carwash. Have washed all my cars, black, silver, red, etc in automatic washes for years and do not experience any scratching.

Key is to wash your car often so it is not too dirty when washing it.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bill D
May 29th, 2005, 11:22 AM
I'll definitely agree that frequent washings are essential.

I have had the foam gun connected to a traditional style hose, a flat hose and a curly , "Slinky-like" hose.

I agree the foam isn't the real key to the safe wash, it's the solution the gun can produce. It has been my observation that even those that do not allow the gun to produce much, if any, substantial foam still allow a generous amount of water mixed with car wash solution, to allow me to wash in a safe and non marring manner.

Also, FWIW, I was told to not use the trigger handle that comes with the gun. Apparently connecting it directly to the hose, first with a quick disconnect and a shut off switch on the end of the hose, can help get more water through it.

That said, you wouldn't want to attempt to wash a vehicle caked with dirt or otherwise significantly soiled. Marring has probably taken place already so upon proper cleaning, inspection for paint correction would be next.