View Full Version : What speed is consider safe on a makita 9227c?
Jan 18th, 2010, 11:31 AM
Hi, I have been doing some detailing for a while now (a little bit more than a year) with a meguiars G110. But still not satisfy with the result. I have been doing some great achievements but want to move on to the next level. I'm a 100% meguiars user, have 90% of the professional & consumer products but the result aren't perfect from what I see (couldn't take out hairline scratches). So a rotary buffer is a clear choice. I recently brought a Makita 9227c and want to know what speed should I start from? I watched many pros from meguiars on youtube using portable cable rotary and makita 9227c with a amazing flawless result (especially m105 & m205). Using a DA with M105 and M205 is a different story though... What do you guys suggest? I know rotary generates heat and if not careful I could burn the paint any good speed for a starter? And will 600 rmp burn paint?
Jan 18th, 2010, 12:29 PM
1200 to 1500 is my favorite speed rage.
I wouldnt go any higher than 1800 to 2000 ever.
Jan 18th, 2010, 01:04 PM
Thanks for the quick reply, I have a 2010 x5 with some bad swirls (from the dealership washes), the DA at speed 5 (polish pad 8000, ultimate compound, M105 & m205 )couldn't fix them (maybe the clear coat is too thick), do you think a polish pad' 7 2.0 with a makita 9227c will (at 600rpm)? I still new to rotary so I don't want to speed up. Or should I order a cutting pad 7000 with speed 6 on a DA?
Again thanks you the quick reply Superior Shine.
Jan 18th, 2010, 01:20 PM
I rarely (if ever) go beyond 1500rpms. Shrink your work area down and use slower passes, just make sure to frequently check the panel you're working on by touching it with your hand, making sure it doesn't get too hot. Keep it on the warmer side but don't let it get hot or else you'll likely run into trouble.
Jan 18th, 2010, 01:44 PM
But what speed should I start at for a rotary beginner? I have been working with DA for over a year, understand the pattern (going across and going up and down) 50% overlapping but still a little afraid to use the rotary.
Jan 18th, 2010, 02:04 PM
Speed of a rotary is dependent upon what you are trying to accomplish, and the severity of the defects you are trying to correct. The majority of the detailers on this site will advise you not to even use a rotary without practicing on something like a junk-yard body panel first, or receiving some instruction, preferably live, but viewing some videos at the very least.
Because of the rotational nature of a rotary (all in the name, right?) the ability to burn through your paint is much more probable than with a dual action polisher. I have linked some rotary threads and wetsanding videos below, but pay heed to the suggestion to get some live instruction from someone with experience.
Learning to use the Rotary Buffer (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21500)
Product, Pad & Speed Recommendations for Rotary Buffing (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39347)
so are there any training DVDs for rotary? (http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37145)
Wetsanding Video 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f8EQNVxxbw)
Wetsanding Video 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38L3UQxXuQA)
Wetsanding Video 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwEyZw-qLPk)
Wetsanding Video 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJPIwCgJwPw)
Wetsanding Video 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfVhG-j3CGQ)
Jan 18th, 2010, 06:00 PM
I have already watched that, he sets the speed to 2400rpm with pressure and stay on the edge way too long (nobody will to that thing) and not to mention he used the cutting pad 7000.
Jan 19th, 2010, 08:54 AM
If you're looking to remove defects from the paint and want to start with a mild approach first, go with a W8000 series pad and run the Makita around 1200~1400 rpm. Be VERY cautious around vinyl and plastic trim or protruding tail light lenses, especially if you ever use a foam cutting pad. Even at slower speeds, bumping a foam cutting pad into a tail light lens will burn it almost immediately. A foam polishing pad might do this also but it will be more forgiving.
Things you can get away with on a D/A without even thinking about them can get you into real trouble with a rotary, and very quickly. The techniques are quite different, even with the similarities such as size of work area, keeping the pad flat and overlapping passes. But you rarely, if ever, use the same kind of pressure on a rotary that you will on a D/A, and you need to be very aware of your work space. Those uneven panel edges, raised trim pieces, etc can pop up seemingly out of nowhere when you're first getting started with a rotary.
Yes, in order to burn through the paint in the middle of a body panel takes a bit of effort and, quite frankly, gross misuse of the tool (assuming good, healthy paint, of course). But it's those little things that can bite you, and you won't even know it's happened until it's too late. It's also very easy to instill holograms in the surface with a rotary, especially if you're moving it too quickly over the surface, or too much up on the edge of the pad, or both. We all know that these holograms can be removed fairly easily with a D/A, but minimizing them in the first place means you're doing a better job to begin with. Of course, sometimes they are almost unavoidable and not that much of a concern, but that's generally in the early stages of compounding following a wet sanding sanding. If you're looking to detail a car and just remove swirls, etchings, etc then minimizing holograms to begin with is very important - it just makes the whole process easier and less time consuming.
Before going at your X5 with the Makita, see about working on an old car, or a body panel. Get a feel for the tool in that setting as it feels quite different than a D/A. Try to burn an edge, try to create holograms, play with it. Intentionally see what happens when you work and edge too long. Feel the panel with your hand after dwelling in an area for several seconds at speed, even with very light pressure. Get a feel for how the surface heats up, or how quickly you can remove paint from an edge. Try with different pads - a foam cutting pad feels very different than a wool pad, or even a foam polishing pad.
Keep in mind, too, that pad cleanliness is perhaps even more important when using a rotary. Then again, with a nylon brush or a spur, pad cleaning is generally a bit easier too.
None of this is meant to scare you away from rotary buffing but rather to make sure you've got a healthy respect for the process. 600 rpm generally won't get you much of anywhere when it comes to defect correction, and won't really give you a serious feel for what the tool can do for the paint. Or to the paint.
Jan 19th, 2010, 10:44 AM
Thanks Michael Stoops for the advices.
I see the different between a DA vs. a rotary buffer. Even with a DA, I never put too much weight on it (max 10lbs), some articles here said 20lbs but I generally don't want to damage my DA (I take good care of it after waxing). I actually tried the rotary on my mom's coffee table (got her very mad), but that is a different story. The coffee table is black and has clear coat, I didn't burn anything (was only testing the speed of my rotary from speed 1-3). As a newbie to rotary, I read a lot of threads on rotary buffing and watched every video available (meguiars videos) just to see enough before trying out myself. I'm getting a porsche boxster s trunk lid (yellow for around 70 dollars, shipped) so maybe I can have some practices on that.
One thing I realize is the x5 hood is very edgy, not flat like my 528i. So how long do you think I have to practice before using the rotary on the x5? And thanks for telling be not to use a cutting pad 7000 on the taillights...this is something new (not shown on the videos).
Oh, I ordered the new w68 backing plate for my makita 9227c, and some more yellow polishing pad '7 2.0. That backing plate said to be very forgiving on the curves right?I can't wait to try it on the porsche trunk lid that I will be getting.
Jan 19th, 2010, 03:02 PM
How long you need to practice depends on how quickly you pick up the technique and feel comfortable with the tool. Make sure that when you do start working on a car you care about you make generous use of the painters tape to mask off delicate areas that could be damaged by a little inattention.
If you're using our Soft Buff 2.0 pads then the W68 backing plate is your best choice for that item. It offers plenty of support toward the outer areas of the pad but with plenty of flex as well. This will help as you encounter curves on various body panels.
Jan 19th, 2010, 03:32 PM
What is the painter's tap? Do you mean masking tape? Oh, I still have one more question, instead of picking up bead (a lot of people found it hard to do), could I put product on the pad (like making an X or a circle)?
Jan 20th, 2010, 01:18 AM
welcome to rotary
i learn mine from
posted Rotary Buffing Write-Up (Lots of pictures) total views: 5,820
get a punching bag & start punching
& then move on
another good teacher with good teaching aids
my passion for detailng went wild after reading this thread, nearly blown my head off..
Jan 20th, 2010, 10:11 AM
KC's, your other good teacher actually redefine the word "detailing". I think it would drive me crazy by doing something like that or maybe even just thinking about it too much will drive me insane.
Apr 26th, 2010, 04:06 AM
I got to work with that buffer yesterday. My brother is very well exp. with it and he showed me he runs it no more then #2 on the dial and actually steps it back 1 click before #2.
He has had excellent results and the buffer was very manageable.