A look into Pad Priming - The Kevin Brown Method

[PorscheGuy997]

A look into Pad Priming - The Kevin Brown Method

Hey everyone,

I thought I would give you guys a little sample of Kevin's paper. One of the most important topics covered is pad priming. Although it may seem simple, I wanted to clear up some confusion.


When I refer to pad priming, I am referring to the liquid that will be used in polishing - not a spray detailer.

M105, M205, M86, D151, SwirlX, ScratchX 2.0, and Ultimate Compound use abrasives that are uniform and non-diminishing (SMAT). That means that they are very different than most products that use abrasives that break down. These products that use non-diminishing abrasives rely heavily on the lubricant. If there is too much lubricant, then the cut will be reduced because the abrasive is floating in lubricant. If there is too little lubricant, then the product will "flash" very quickly and you will need to reapply product.

The best way to utilize the products listed above (non-diminishing or SMAT) is to prime the pad. To do so, take the product and pour some on the pad. Then, rub it in. You are not trying to spread butter on toast! Aggressively rub the product into the pad until the entire surface is covered.


To show the method, I chose M205 and a W9207 finishing pad.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/PorscheGuy997/StandardPad.jpg

Below is an example of a poorly primed pad. As you can see, the product has completely filled in each of the pores. This will waste product and reduce the cut.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/PorscheGuy997/Oversaturated.jpg

Here is what a properly primed pad should look like. The pores are not filled with product, but there is still product available in the pores.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/PorscheGuy997/Primed.jpg

To give you a better idea of what the pores look like, I took a macro shot of the above pad properly primed with M205.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/PorscheGuy997/Macro.jpg


Hope that helps!

[dvtldav]

Chris,
Try to remember to show us that on May 9th when we are down for the Midwest get together.

Dave

[3Fitty]

Thanks for the post Chris. Great information for anyone!

[BlueZero]

Great info Chris! Thanks for posting it here!

What do you use to spread and rub the product in? First thought would be your hand but I'm wondering if there isn't a less messy option that works as well.

[Carfire]

Great Pictures!!
Thanks for the Tips!!

[TimG]

Reminds me of Oreo's biscuits. Lol

Thanks for the share dude! :xyxthumbs

[Nick Chapman]

This really does work guys. Been doing it this way for a while now(ever since Lord Brown showed me :D ).

[3Fitty]

Gents,

I would imagine you would try to work it in the same way with the CCS foam pads?

http://www.modupload.com/images/ee7n9my298n72t0166g1.jpg

Even in the little divets?

[J. A. Michaels]

Chris,
Thanks for taking the time to do this. I know it will help myself and others. Thanks again.

[PorscheGuy997]

Gents,

I would imagine you would try to work it in the same way with the CCS foam pads? Even in the little divets?


There really shouldn't be any problem with priming a CCS pad. It will be a little more difficult to do, but I can't see anything going wrong.

[Johnson]

Great info Chris! Thanks for posting it here!

What do you use to spread and rub the product in? First thought would be your hand but I'm wondering if there isn't a less messy option that works as well.
......:scratchhead1

I was wondering the same thing

[PorscheGuy997]

I just prime the pads with a finger. Usually, I just apply a circle of the polish, work it into the pad, and then apply a bit more polish to the dry areas and work it in.

You might be able to prime it using a pen or something, but I haven't tried anything else.

[BlueZero]

I've thought about the application since then. I wonder if a putty knife wouldn't work good. The plastic ones are pretty cheap.

[PorscheGuy997]

Yeah, a putty knife might work.

My only concern would be that the knife could cut into the pad. You need something that can be pressed into the pad to work the product in.

I normally prime the pad before polishing. Then, I just add the product when needed. The priming is not after each section, but rather when the pad is fresh and devoid of product.

[Nappers]

Is this for DA or Rotary use? Or both?

Looks good.

[PorscheGuy997]

Pad priming can be used on all machines: DA, rotary, and Cyclo.

Kevin's paper will only cover the DA, though.

[BlueZero]

Thanks Chris! I'm looking forward to give this a try. Hopefully soon.

[Still Learnin]

this is a great thread. my yellow foam pad was dusting when i was polishing... learned thsat i had a few dry spots on the pad and when it slightly tilt the g110 it would dust like as if i was shaving the pad. primed it will a little of 205 or whatever polish ill be using and viola... no more problems...

[wyseilmykkar]

If you've ever painted a room/surface with a roller you already now how to prime a pad; if you don't get the entire surface of the roller covered with paint when you start on your surface you're going to have voids where the roll is dry. You don't want to load the roller to the point where you can't move it from over the pan for fear of dripping, but rather an even amount. Same principle applies here, IMO.

[PorscheGuy997]

Very true.

I would like to add that this method is NOT for use with products that use diminishing abrasives. If you use a product that uses abrasives that break down, there might be some inconsistent polishing because the abrasives break down randomly.

[techjazz]

That macro shot was ridiculous!

[miahjohn]

So, do you only prime the pad to start the polish process, or do you do this everytime you polish a new section?

[PorscheGuy997]

You only need to prime the pad when you start polishing with a new or fresh pad. Then, you can add a bit of polish (four pea sized dots) and begin to work a section.

I like to polish really small sections at a time. So, I don't need to apply as much product as someone doing a 16x16 section. Once you have dialed in the amount of product needed, you should be fine.

Remember to switch out the pads as often as possible to maintain a constant level of cut.

[Bunky]

I like to polish really small sections at a time. So, I don't need to apply as much product as someone doing a 16x16 section.

I consider 16x16 a fairly small section. What size do you start with? 12x12?

[3Fitty]

I consider 3' x 3' small!!! LOL sheesh

[Nick Chapman]

I consider 16x16 a fairly small section. What size do you start with? 12x12?

I work really small sections also. Most of the time, I'll work it by the inch, sometime I'll even bump it up to about a 6" square. But rarely go above that. For me, this is the ideal method. I get better results, and it fits my style. Been doing it this way for years now ;)

Nick

[resek]

Very true.

I would like to add that this method is NOT for use with products that use diminishing abrasives. If you use a product that uses abrasives that break down, there might be some inconsistent polishing because the abrasives break down randomly.

Can you give example of diminishing abrasives and NON-diminishing abrasives ?
Meguiars M83 ?
Meguiar M95 ?
Meguiars M105 ?
Meguiars M205 ?
Menzerna SIP ?
Menzerna 106FF/106FA ?
Menzerna IP ?
Menzerna FP ?
3M Ultrafina ?

thanks in advance!
P.S. If you know, can you tell us how you know that a product is Dim. abra. and the other is non-dim.abra.

[PorscheGuy997]

Sure!

Here are the products that use non-diminishing abrasives:
M86, M105, M205, D151, SwirlX, Ultimate Compound, and ScratchX 2.0

Here are the products that use diminishing abrasives:
M01, M02, M04, M06, M09, M19, M80, M82, M83, M84, M85, M95, DC1, and the original ScratchX.

The Meguiar's products that use non-diminishing abrasives should mention on the bottle that is uses Super-Micro Abrasive Technology.


All of the Menzerna products use diminishing abrasives. I did hear that they are developing a product that uses diamond dust, though. The only problem is that it costs a fortune.

Ultrafina uses diminishing abrasives (and a very durable filler).

[resek]

Sure!

Here are the products that use non-diminishing abrasives:
M86, M105, M205, D151, SwirlX, Ultimate Compound, and ScratchX 2.0

Here are the products that use diminishing abrasives:
M01, M02, M04, M06, M09, M19, M80, M82, M83, M84, M85, M95, DC1, and the original ScratchX.

The Meguiar's products that use non-diminishing abrasives should mention on the bottle that is uses Super-Micro Abrasive Technology.


All of the Menzerna products use diminishing abrasives. I did hear that they are developing a product that uses diamond dust, though. The only problem is that it costs a fortune.

Ultrafina uses diminishing abrasives (and a very durable filler).

Thanks a lot Chris!
Very good info there!
Good thing about M95, i was about to use the "priming" method for it ... but since it's a diminishing abrasive, i won't use this method.

:xyxthumbs

[jdoria]

I primed CCS pads as per KB's recommendation on the past 4 cars I have done.

I am extremley pleased with the time savings and cutting ability.

I dont care if I use more product, product is extremely cheap, I gain time. Try this, you will not regret it.

[Tom Weed]

Chris,
on the pad cleaning, I usually clean the pad after every panel or every other panel, depending on the condition of the pad. Ever since I bought a pad washer that's what I use to clean the pads with on the fly. Would you re-prime the pad after using the pad washer to clean it with? It will be slightly damp (I usually hold up a towel to the pad to remove the excess moisture after spinning it in open air on the rotary). I think I read where you have to change the pad and let that one dry completely?

[PorscheGuy997]

Yes, after cleaning the pad with a soft brush, the pad should be reprimed. There will be some residual product after cleaning, but it is a good idea to make sure there is fresh polish in the pad.

I prefer to let the pad dry before buffing. There will be some residual water, which could thin out the polish.

[TerryAdams]

Thanks a lot Chris!
Very good info there!
Good thing about M95, i was about to use the "priming" method for it ... but since it's a diminishing abrasive, i won't use this method.

:xyxthumbs


A thread about DAT vs. SMAT and a post from Mike Pennington regarding the type of compound that M95 is.
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23748


M95 vs. M105 threads
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26534
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26805

I bet M95 would work with the "KB method".

[resek]

A thread about DAT vs. SMAT and a post from Mike Pennington regarding the type of compound that M95 is.
http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23748


M95 vs. M105 threads
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26534
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26805

I bet M95 would work with the "KB method".

Thanks Terry for those links!
I'll give M95 a try with "KBM".
Scottwax2

[roger 668]

I am sure many were thinking spray to prime the pad,thanks for the clarification.I have always primed with spray before priming with the working product.

[tylorweaver]

Does anyone have any of the above photos for the KB method explanation/procedure hosted somewhere differently from Photobucket?? For some reason my computer hates Photobucket links... :( HELP!!!? :D

[PorscheGuy997]

A look into Pad Priming - The Kevin Brown Method

Hey everyone,

I thought I would give you guys a little sample of Kevin's paper. One of the most important topics covered is pad priming. Although it may seem simple, I wanted to clear up some confusion.


When I refer to pad priming, I am referring to the liquid that will be used in polishing - not a spray detailer.

M105, M205, M86, D151, SwirlX, ScratchX 2.0, and Ultimate Compound use abrasives that are uniform and non-diminishing (SMAT). That means that they are very different than most products that use abrasives that break down. These products that use non-diminishing abrasives rely heavily on the lubricant. If there is too much lubricant, then the cut will be reduced because the abrasive is floating in lubricant. If there is too little lubricant, then the product will "flash" very quickly and you will need to reapply product.

The best way to utilize the products listed above (non-diminishing or SMAT) is to prime the pad. To do so, take the product and pour some on the pad. Then, rub it in. You are not trying to spread butter on toast! Aggressively rub the product into the pad until the entire surface is covered.


To show the method, I chose M205 and a W9207 finishing pad.
http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/StandardPad.jpg

Below is an example of a poorly primed pad. As you can see, the product has completely filled in each of the pores. This will waste product and reduce the cut.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/Oversaturated.jpg

Here is what a properly primed pad should look like. The pores are not filled with product, but there is still product available in the pores.

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/Primed.jpg

To give you a better idea of what the pores look like, I took a macro shot of the above pad properly primed with M205.

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/medium/Macro.jpg


Hope that helps!

[tylorweaver]

THAT is fantastic.. Thank you so much Chris! :D You sir, are a master of your craft :) Thanks!

[Underdawg736]

I have a question. Would there be any benefits by priming an applicator pad (working by hand)? I plan on doing this this weekend using the Hi Tech Applicator pads and UC.

[PorscheGuy997]

I doubt it. When working by hand, the product should easily spread on the applicator. If it does not, then you do not have enough product on the pad.

[Caress Detailing]

I know this is an old thread, but I was recently taught to prime the pad with something like Final Inspection. A couple sprays, then apply the product.

The problem I see with priming the pad using the method like this, is the amount of product you're using. I was also taught to clean the pad after a panel because of all the debris and paint gets stuck on the pad. So if you have to re-prime again after each panel, wouldn't that be a lot of wasted product?

[Tuck91]

I know this is an old thread, but I was recently taught to prime the pad with something like Final Inspection. A couple sprays, then apply the product.

The problem I see with priming the pad using the method like this, is the amount of product you're using. I was also taught to clean the pad after a panel because of all the debris and paint gets stuck on the pad. So if you have to re-prime again after each panel, wouldn't that be a lot of wasted product?


I think you only prime a pad when you get a new pad.

[PorscheGuy997]

I know this is an old thread, but I was recently taught to prime the pad with something like Final Inspection. A couple sprays, then apply the product.

The problem I see with priming the pad using the method like this, is the amount of product you're using. I was also taught to clean the pad after a panel because of all the debris and paint gets stuck on the pad. So if you have to re-prime again after each panel, wouldn't that be a lot of wasted product?

Just to confirm, the use of M34 is recommended only for rotary polishing. However, I find that a spray detailer can dilute the non-diminishing abrasive liquid and reduce the cut. If you are just using a diminishing abrasive product, then there is nothing wrong with using a spray detailer.

It really does not use a lot of excess product. Instead of applying a full circle, just prime the pad and add two or three dots of product. You should be good to go after that.

It's always best to clean the pad as often as possible. I clean it at least one time per section. After cleaning, I will prime the pad and add a few dots. The idea is to make sure there is fresh product available at all times.

[akimel]

Chris, have you found that the amount of polish you use per section (2 or 3 dots) also applies to SwirlX and Ultimate Compound?

[SHYNEMAN123]

Thanks Chris.

[PorscheGuy997]

Chris, have you found that the amount of polish you use per section (2 or 3 dots) also applies to SwirlX and Ultimate Compound?

SwirlX and Ultimate Compound have very different consistencies. I find that the three dots are necessary for SwirlX. Ultimate Compound is thinner, so I may only use two small dots.

Too much product on the surface is a bad thing. There are a number of factors that go into choosing the amount of product to use - pad, product, machine, humidity, etc. It's all about finding what works best for you.

[Caress Detailing]

Just to confirm, the use of M34 is recommended only for rotary polishing. However, I find that a spray detailer can dilute the non-diminishing abrasive liquid and reduce the cut. If you are just using a diminishing abrasive product, then there is nothing wrong with using a spray detailer.

It really does not use a lot of excess product. Instead of applying a full circle, just prime the pad and add two or three dots of product. You should be good to go after that.

It's always best to clean the pad as often as possible. I clean it at least one time per section. After cleaning, I will prime the pad and add a few dots. The idea is to make sure there is fresh product available at all times.

I see, I'm learning stuff everyday :chuckle1

[rusty bumper]

It really does not use a lot of excess product. Instead of applying a full circle, just prime the pad and add two or three dots of product. You should be good to go after that.

It's always best to clean the pad as often as possible. I clean it at least one time per section. After cleaning, I will prime the pad and add a few dots. The idea is to make sure there is fresh product available at all times.

Sounds like a lot of work...maybe I've been doing it wrong or something.

When using D151, for example, the pad tends to collect embedded product on the surface, and I use a brush to remove the residue with...however, the pad is still damp. Even though the pad feels damp, I am supposed to re-prime the pad?

[PorscheGuy997]

Sounds like a lot of work...maybe I've been doing it wrong or something.

When using D151, for example, the pad tends to collect embedded product on the surface, and I use a brush to remove the residue with...however, the pad is still damp. Even though the pad feels damp, I am supposed to re-prime the pad?

After cleaning the pad, I usually re-prime the pad. It's always best to have fresh product in the pores. After cleaning the pad, there will be a lower amount of abrasive particles in the pad. If you want to maximize the amount of abrasives and cutting power, it's best to re-prime the pad.

[rms]

Thank you for this post. Great advice!!

[silverjag]

I apologize for the incredibly ignorant question, but when you guys refer to cleaning the pad, do you use Mike's method, where you run the pad on a MF towel?

How often do you guys clean the pad? Usually I clean it 5-6 times on my small car according to the above method.

Am I wrong in doing so? I just need a clarification here - Thanks!

[PorscheGuy997]

I only clean my pad a few different ways.

The first option is to clean it on the fly with a microfiber. While cotton terry can be substituted, I try not to use this method (the cotton terry can leave micromarring on sensitive finishes).

The second, and one of the best, is to use compressed air. By blowing out the pad, you are removing the liquid and spent polish. This lets you use a pad for a longer time before switching to another.

The third option is to use a pad cleaning system - System 2000 or Grit Guard. While both of them work, they leave water in the pad, which is not a great thing.

The fourth option is to use a soft brush or spur. While it does remove the spent polish, there is some liquid left over. Plus, this method cannot be used with a DA.

I go to the extreme and clean my pad as often as possible. Usually, I divide a panel into two sections. When I switch sections, I clean the pad. For example, I divide a door into two parts. Once one side is completed, the pad is cleaned. But, this is all relative to which product, pad, machine, and defect to be removed. If the paint is heavily oxidized and the scratches are deep, the pad may need to be cleaned much more often. The end choice is up to you, but I prefer to play it safe and clean the pad as often as possible.

[V.I.P.E.R]

I was wondering where the full write up of the KBM was i wanted to read it fully.
Also is there any videos on this method from him or someone who knows the correct way as there are so many doing this wrong with wrong info. i don't know what is true and false.

[rusty bumper]

I was wondering where the full write up of the KBM was i wanted to read it fully.
Also is there any videos on this method from him or someone who knows the correct way as there are so many doing this wrong with wrong info. i don't know what is true and false.

There was a thread on Autopia about this method, but I haven't kept up with it. Kevin went a little more in depth there.